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Old 01-07-2014, 01:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,011 posts, read 102,621,396 times
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^^Your links look a bit biased. Will look at them later, but seriously, BikePortland.org; treehugger.com; Atlantic Cities; Making Way for Pedestrians and Bicycles?

The second link looks reliable, but I note the article is not about eliminating parking but about something called "congestion pricing". The link about NYC likewise looks reliable, but NYC is an outlier.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^Your links look a bit biased. Will look at them later, but seriously, BikePortland.org; treehugger.com; Atlantic Cities; Making Way for Pedestrians and Bicycles?

The second link looks reliable, but I note the article is not about eliminating parking but about something called "congestion pricing". The link about NYC likewise looks reliable, but NYC is an outlier.
You should read the links, they are linking to official studies and summarizing the results. The streets blog paper, although about congestion pricing, has some stats on "spend per trip." There was also a street in the Bronx or Brooklyn where they took away parking and added a bike lane, and sales tax revenues increased 50% over I think it was 3 years. But the nearby streets with out the better sidewalks and bike lanes (with similar stuff) only had an 8 or 10% increase over the same time period. Not sure if the study is linked in any of the ones above, but it has popped up several times for me in the past couple of months. I also saw a similar store on LA, Long Beach or Venice..

We have a bias towards the status quo that prevents us from even researching alternative points of view that challenge our assumptions.

My local whole Foods ended up doubling bike parking after a few weeks of being open due to unexpected demand. The parking is usually pretty full, most times of day and they have about 40 bike spots. People lock this bikes to the nearby meters and street signs too. I'd imagine adding more bike parking would not be a problem and it would be used heavily. They have a parking lot of about 300 spots, but 30% or more patrons arrive via foot or bike too. They have sidewalk and parking lot entrances.

On the flipside, there is a CVS in my neighborhood that doesn't have a dedicated lot, there is a shared city lot for the neighborhood and it is adjacent to the CVS. The have a sidewalk entrance and a parking lot entrance. The sidewalk entrance closes at 8pm, while the store is open till 10 or 11 PM. My sister lives 2 blocks from the store and assumed it closed at 8 since the front door was locked. She didn't find out it was open later until she lived in her apartment for 3 years..... the CVS is within 2 blocks of around 20 buildings with 30-100 residents each, in a neighborhood with a high percentage of non-drivers. The neighborhood density is 16k/square mile. How many other nearby residents had no idea the store was open late, since there is no signage indicating the back door is open on the main entrance? They missed out on years of business from my sister (who went to the other CVS 5 blocks away from her place) because they assumed that the majority of patrons were drivers.......

This is my problem with parking....even thought i drive most of the time, we devote so much street space to parking, it is annoying or difficult to just walk from place to place if you have multiple errands in the same commercial area. We have engineered activity out of our live to make sure everyone has sufficient parking, and then people drive across the strip mall to get a closer space!
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,113,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
You should read the links, they are linking to official studies and summarizing the results. The streets blog paper, although about congestion pricing, has some stats on "spend per trip." There was also a street in the Bronx or Brooklyn where they took away parking and added a bike lane, and sales tax revenues increased 50% over I think it was 3 years. But the nearby streets with out the better sidewalks and bike lanes (with similar stuff) only had an 8 or 10% increase over the same time period. Not sure if the study is linked in any of the ones above, but it has popped up several times for me in the past couple of months. I also saw a similar store on LA, Long Beach or Venice..

We have a bias towards the status quo that prevents us from even researching alternative points of view that challenge our assumptions.

My local whole Foods ended up doubling bike parking after a few weeks of being open due to unexpected demand. The parking is usually pretty full, most times of day and they have about 40 bike spots. People lock this bikes to the nearby meters and street signs too. I'd imagine adding more bike parking would not be a problem and it would be used heavily. They have a parking lot of about 300 spots, but 30% or more patrons arrive via foot or bike too. They have sidewalk and parking lot entrances.

On the flipside, there is a CVS in my neighborhood that doesn't have a dedicated lot, there is a shared city lot for the neighborhood and it is adjacent to the CVS. The have a sidewalk entrance and a parking lot entrance. The sidewalk entrance closes at 8pm, while the store is open till 10 or 11 PM. My sister lives 2 blocks from the store and assumed it closed at 8 since the front door was locked. She didn't find out it was open later until she lived in her apartment for 3 years..... the CVS is within 2 blocks of around 20 buildings with 30-100 residents each, in a neighborhood with a high percentage of non-drivers. The neighborhood density is 16k/square mile. How many other nearby residents had no idea the store was open late, since there is no signage indicating the back door is open on the main entrance? They missed out on years of business from my sister (who went to the other CVS 5 blocks away from her place) because they assumed that the majority of patrons were drivers.......

This is my problem with parking....even thought i drive most of the time, we devote so much street space to parking, it is annoying or difficult to just walk from place to place if you have multiple errands in the same commercial area. We have engineered activity out of our live to make sure everyone has sufficient parking, and then people drive across the strip mall to get a closer space!
Haha the Wal Green's in my neighborhood is like this - it has a sidewalk entrance and a parking lot entrance. Seems like at least 1/2 of the customers come in from the front entrance (it is along a pretty busy office / retail corridor), but the only register near that exit is the photo booth, which is only sometimes staffed. Otherwise I have to go to the "back" of the store, purchase the items and then walk out through what I consider the "front". The store closes at midnight and it too only has the parking lot entrance open. It's not that big of a hassle but a strange priority for a place in a semi-urban environment.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Lakewood, CO
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As munchitup mentioned previously, the parking minimums may not necessarily be bad, but (in Los Angeles at least) seem wildly out of sync with what certain communities need, or even, in some cases, what certain communities want. I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere once (yeah, not too reliable, but bear with me!) that, at least for maybe residential projects, the ratio of parking to units for rent/sale is a whopping 2:1; and from what I've seen, in denser, more urban areas like Downtown, Hollywood, or Koreatown, it creates a problem, as there is much more parking than is actually needed, as many folks in those areas may not actually drive. So what could be more space for people (and a cheaper cost for developers) is taken up by unnecessary parking spaces; granted, the city does allow developers to swap out car parking spaces for bike parking spaces to bring down the cost, but is that really much better? It's still an unnecessary ratio, and takes up space that could be put to better uses.

And I've seen a few parklets in Downtown LA, and from what I've seen (at least Downtown), parklets and road diets go a long way to making a street more friendly and walkable, though that should be no surprise. Why the city hasn't updated its parking minimums is beyond me, though whether or not they're actively working on that is also beyond my scope of knowledge

Also, again, I don't know if that ratio is correct or not, so if I'm wrong, please correct me
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
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I was on the Miami forum on Skyscraperpage.com last week, and this will be a first for Miami: a 40 story condo building in the Brickell area with no parking provided for the residents or guests! A little extreme, wouldn't you say?

One of the pluses of seeing acres of all this empty parking spots today, in commercial centers, is the land is cleared now, making it possible to quickly build some housing, when that time comes! No demolition of buildings necessary!
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:36 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I was on the Miami forum on Skyscraperpage.com last week, and this will be a first for Miami: a 40 story condo building in the Brickell area with no parking provided for the residents or guests! A little extreme, wouldn't you say?
Perhaps there's a glut of parking nearby in garages?
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dethwulf_Zero View Post
As munchitup mentioned previously, the parking minimums may not necessarily be bad, but (in Los Angeles at least) seem wildly out of sync with what certain communities need, or even, in some cases, what certain communities want. I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere once (yeah, not too reliable, but bear with me!) that, at least for maybe residential projects, the ratio of parking to units for rent/sale is a whopping 2:1; and from what I've seen, in denser, more urban areas like Downtown, Hollywood, or Koreatown, it creates a problem, as there is much more parking than is actually needed, as many folks in those areas may not actually drive. So what could be more space for people (and a cheaper cost for developers) is taken up by unnecessary parking spaces; granted, the city does allow developers to swap out car parking spaces for bike parking spaces to bring down the cost, but is that really much better? It's still an unnecessary ratio, and takes up space that could be put to better uses.

And I've seen a few parklets in Downtown LA, and from what I've seen (at least Downtown), parklets and road diets go a long way to making a street more friendly and walkable, though that should be no surprise. Why the city hasn't updated its parking minimums is beyond me, though whether or not they're actively working on that is also beyond my scope of knowledge

Also, again, I don't know if that ratio is correct or not, so if I'm wrong, please correct me
They are. Much of the city is going through comprehensive zoning reform (for example the controversial Hollywood Community Plan, which was just struck down by a judge ).
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:02 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,011 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33075
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I was on the Miami forum on Skyscraperpage.com last week, and this will be a first for Miami: a 40 story condo building in the Brickell area with no parking provided for the residents or guests! A little extreme, wouldn't you say?

One of the pluses of seeing acres of all this empty parking spots today, in commercial centers, is the land is cleared now, making it possible to quickly build some housing, when that time comes! No demolition of buildings necessary!
Yes, I would say it's extreme! Most likely all the residents of the condos will have at least one car per unit. The streets will be crowded beyond belief. While Miami doesn't have to worry about snow-removal, surely the streets need to be swept at times, and there has to be some way for emergency vehicles to gain access.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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I still have not heard of a single example where a commercial district (or any other portion of a city, for that matter) has floundered and failed due to lack of adequate parking. Indeed, every successful neighborhood seems to develop a parking problem, whereas downtowns which have ample parking in surface lots and free garages are often dead, if not outright blighted.

As to the larger issue about parking hassles, I can relate. My own neighborhood has gotten far worse as its gentrified. Historically many of the houses were quasi-vacant, and many residents were low income retirees who didn't drive. Now there are more drivers in the neighborhood, and more cars. This can be an issue considering it's a rowhouse neighborhood where houses are 12 to 20 feet wide on average, and not everyone has access to a driveway in a rear alley (since the alleys themselves have houses in places as well). We used to always find parking on our block, but sometimes we now need to park a block or two away.

That said, this stuff can be handled with natural churn. Our second car was such a hassle for us (it was seldom driven, and I got a lot of tickets on street cleaning days) we got rid of it. As the neighborhood grows in desirability, more people are moving here who are one car families. And there are plans to add both commuter rail and a streetcar, which would provide other transit options besides the (heavily utilized) bus routes. Eventually I see the parking issues plateauing, with the neighborhood population growing, pedestrian amenities increasing, and the neighborhood attracting more people who don't mind solely walking and using mass transit.

Of course for long-term residents, who were used to ample parking, this won't be an ideal solution. But this gets to the crux of many development/urban planning issues. Old timers almost always want to crystallize their neighborhood in its current state, because they have certain benefits from it (and people in general don't like change). But this needs to be separated from actual negative changes which hurt neighborhood desirability overall. So long as the population and neighborhood real estate prices are rising, from a utilitarian standpoint the neighborhood is improving.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:24 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, I would say it's extreme! Most likely all the residents of the condos will have at least one car per unit. The streets will be crowded beyond belief. While Miami doesn't have to worry about snow-removal, surely the streets need to be swept at times, and there has to be some way for emergency vehicles to gain access.
All streets in residential neighborhoods near the center of NYC, Boston and Philly have the sides almost entirely used for street parking and the streets get swept and emergency vehicles have access. The majority of car owners rely on street parking, though I doubt one car per unit is likely downtown, though any high rise with that much parking* would attract car owners. For the downtown area, Boston suggests (mandates?) 0.5-1.0 parking spaces per unit.

http://www.cityofboston.gov/Images_D...tcm3-12610.pdf

For this specific example, yes it would be a lot of cars surrounding the building for several blocks. I'm guessing local garages would take the pressure off the streets.

*Illegal in most of Manhattan, which has a maximum of 0.2 parking spaces per unit or 0.35 parking spaces depending on neighborhood.
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