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Old 01-13-2014, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
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I like having parking requirements, because I like having parking when I go places.

Perhaps a simple response? I suppose, but it's my opinion so it is what it is.

That said, I like living places where abundant free parking in residential/commercial areas is the norm, though I don't mind higher density areas having paid garage parking rather than free lot parking. For example, I greatly appreciate the fact that I can go to my local suburban-style Target, supermarket or shopping mall and always count on their being practically unlimited free parking. Even over the holidays when the mall's lots were basically maxed out, I still found easy open spots in the far corner of the lot (which I prefer and don't mind walking from at all). When I go to Manhattan for whatever reason, I don't expect to have the big parking lots, but I'm very grateful that there is still relatively abundant garage parking, and with a certain parking app on my phone, reasonable rates can be had in most areas. A few weeks ago, I snagged a spot in a garage in the heart of midtown (43rd btwn 5th and 6th) for 5 hours on a Saturday night for $12 with the coupon rate, normally $30. Pretty reasonable and worth it for the convenience of having my car with me, avoiding transit and being able to actually get home in half the time (even with traffic).
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:58 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,939,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No, they'll just build with none and rely on neighbors/city to cover the cost. That's why minimum parking requires are used. Look at the micro housing in Seattle. One of the legitimate criticisms is they don't include any parking. You've got 30-40 unit apartment complexes going up without a parking space where a couple houses used to be. The parking was bad before in those neighborhoods. Most of the houses don't have garages since they were built before cars were common place. Partly that was a learning curve. The Calhoun properties mostly do have parking included. Partly because they can make $ off it, partly because of the backlash and potential to change zoning laws. But that's fairly rare. Most developers don't have any vested interest in a neighborhood. They usually develop it and sell it off, not build it and then manage it as a landlord.

And the bolded works exactly the same way in reverse. It's not like the city can't change the zoning or there's a one-size fits all approach. My own extremely auto-centric suburb has areas where the minimum parking requirement is zero. We're conventional and backwards thinking to a fault here. It's not controversial at all to not require minimum parking. It just depends on what and where.
The bolded is exactly why getting rid of minimum parking requirements is a good thing (although I don't think the city should have to cover it). If people want to use parking, they should be willing to pay for it. Neighbors can sell parking spaces. That's letting the market determine how much parking is needed, rather than having appointed officials make a guess at what the appropriate minimum is. Of course, their guess is likely to be way off, which is why in so many cities and towns an inefficiently large amount of space is given to parking, a great percentage of which sits around unused for much of the day.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,733,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No, they'll just build with none and rely on neighbors/city to cover the cost. That's why minimum parking requires are used. Look at the micro housing in Seattle. One of the legitimate criticisms is they don't include any parking. You've got 30-40 unit apartment complexes going up without a parking space where a couple houses used to be. The parking was bad before in those neighborhoods. Most of the houses don't have garages since they were built before cars were common place. Partly that was a learning curve. The Calhoun properties mostly do have parking included. Partly because they can make $ off it, partly because of the backlash and potential to change zoning laws. But that's fairly rare. Most developers don't have any vested interest in a neighborhood. They usually develop it and sell it off, not build it and then manage it as a landlord.

And the bolded works exactly the same way in reverse. It's not like the city can't change the zoning or there's a one-size fits all approach. My own extremely auto-centric suburb has areas where the minimum parking requirement is zero. We're conventional and backwards thinking to a fault here. It's not controversial at all to not require minimum parking. It just depends on what and where.
The problem is we have this expectation that parking should always be free, and that we need to dedicate significant space to parking. We need to let the market decide. If you have a car, and you don't have deeded parking, then you should live somewhere with deeded parking, so the people who don't want parking can live somewhere (and feasibly save money, since they aren't paying for something they don't use).

We should not expect that street parking will always be available in front of your house for free. That space in the street is a public space, and should be available to be reutilized for the greater public good when needed.

I live a few blocks away from a big hospital. There are several garages that serve the hospital. My neighborhood doesn't have a residential permit program, so people who don't want to pay for parking, park in my neighborhood and walk those extra blocks. Now it isn't a huge issue in my particular section since basically every multi unit building has at least one deeded/dedicated space per unit, and the single family homes have driveways and garages. But obviously this could potentially be problematic in other situations. The areas closer to the hospital do have a residential permit program. For about the 2 block radius (I am 3 blocks away). The areas in that two block radius (also a busy commercial district) have a lower number of deeded parking spaces, and parking is an extra cost for the apartment dwellers. They have decoupled parking from the apartments.

There are also some "shared usage" rules for the parking lots in the area. The independent grocery store opens up its lot to anyone when the store is closed. So it serves as overflow parking for the people going out to dinner, the bar, the movies or nearby residents for overnight. Instead of letting that space sit empty when they aren't using it.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:03 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post

There are also some "shared usage" rules for the parking lots in the area. The independent grocery store opens up its lot to anyone when the store is closed. So it serves as overflow parking for the people going out to dinner, the bar, the movies or nearby residents for overnight. Instead of letting that space sit empty when they aren't using it.
I generally assume, if a business is closed even if the sign says no parking, no one's checking if you use the space. Parking can get double usage in other ways, too. For example, if the hospital is busiest during the day [hospital probably has less of regular working hour peak than typical business], the residential streets nearby probably empty out a bit during business hours. So parking spaces that would be sitting empty get used.

The street I live gets some people who park on it during daytime hours to visit the town center, many of the residents street parking drive away, so the visitors are using spaces that would otherwise sit empty. More efficient than building more parking, and more attractive than having an extra parking lot.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,092 posts, read 16,126,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
The problem is we have this expectation that parking should always be free, and that we need to dedicate significant space to parking. We need to let the market decide. If you have a car, and you don't have deeded parking, then you should live somewhere with deeded parking, so the people who don't want parking can live somewhere (and feasibly save money, since they aren't paying for something they don't use).
I live in the suburbs and expect no such thing even here. I do not expect free parking when I go to our four-block downtown let alone when I go pretty much anywhere in San Francisco. Free parking in downtown San Jose or Sacramento? No. Perhaps it might get validated, but free I do not expect.

Quote:
We should not expect that street parking will always be available in front of your house for free. That space in the street is a public space, and should be available to be reutilized for the greater public good when needed.
Exactly.

Hence why minimum parking should be required in areas where off-street public parking is not readily available. It's absolutely not your parking, and the reality is below very low density street parking alone is not enough.

Quote:
I live a few blocks away from a big hospital. There are several garages that serve the hospital. My neighborhood doesn't have a residential permit program, so people who don't want to pay for parking, park in my neighborhood and walk those extra blocks. Now it isn't a huge issue in my particular section since basically every multi unit building has at least one deeded/dedicated space per unit, and the single family homes have driveways and garages. But obviously this could potentially be problematic in other situations. The areas closer to the hospital do have a residential permit program. For about the 2 block radius (I am 3 blocks away). The areas in that two block radius (also a busy commercial district) have a lower number of deeded parking spaces, and parking is an extra cost for the apartment dwellers. They have decoupled parking from the apartments.
Sounds like you live in a normal city with minimum parking requirements and residential permits that work fairly well to handle the situation. That's not surprising to me. Minimum parking doesn't mean free parking or coupled parking part of your rent. Never has.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:43 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
I live in the suburbs and expect no such thing even here. I do not expect free parking when I go to our four-block downtown let alone when I go pretty much anywhere in San Francisco. Free parking in downtown San Jose or Sacramento? No. Perhaps it might get validated, but free I do not expect.
I expect free parking when I drive to NYC neighborhoods, even Manhattan ones. I don't expect to find it right away, but with patience it will be free!
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Paris
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Surprised about Manhattan. I've tried to find it in numerous big European cities (London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris...) at a reasonable distance from railway/subway/streetcar stops, but to no avail. If there are no parking meters, 99% of the time you'll need a residential parking permit (outside sundays and evenings). Maybe I don't try hard enough.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,051 posts, read 102,757,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I generally assume, if a business is closed even if the sign says no parking, no one's checking if you use the space. Parking can get double usage in other ways, too. For example, if the hospital is busiest during the day [hospital probably has less of regular working hour peak than typical business], the residential streets nearby probably empty out a bit during business hours. So parking spaces that would be sitting empty get used.

The street I live gets some people who park on it during daytime hours to visit the town center, many of the residents street parking drive away, so the visitors are using spaces that would otherwise sit empty. More efficient than building more parking, and more attractive than having an extra parking lot.
Hospitals operate 24/7. Most nurses work 12 hour shifts. I don't know about other staff. I would think parking near a hospital is always at a premium.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,080,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
Surprised about Manhattan. I've tried to find it in numerous big European cities (London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris...) at a reasonable distance from railway/subway/streetcar stops, but to no avail. If there are no parking meters, 99% of the time you'll need a residential parking permit (outside sundays and evenings). Maybe I don't try hard enough.
there's no residential permit system in NYC, eventually in Manhattan a space will free up and there's usually one here and there if you look hard. I'm not sure why they don't implement one, it results in making wealthy dense neighborhoods easier to visit by car but harder to own a car in.

It doesn't really make sense to drive into Manhattan without a good reason, though KeepRightPassLeft seems to manage. Recently, I found a good stop: industrial area of Queens a short distance from a subway (and a short ride at that) right near an expressway exit. Park free on evenings and Sundays. Half a block from station, most spots empty.

Edit: here's where I parked. For some reason, much busier in the view than when I there. Three Priuses in a row on the other side of the street! Assume it's safe leaving a car in a non-residential street off hours...

https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=34th+S...47.03,,0,11.79

doing random streetview skims of London it appears it's easier to find street parking. Might be from the lower density rather than the residential parking permit system:

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=C...316.96,,0,8.59

Last edited by nei; 01-13-2014 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Paris
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There is none in Paris either, so it's more feasible to visit by car than the other 3 cities mentioned, but in the city center one has to pay. I never go there by car unless I drop someone off / pick someone up at a train station with heavy luggage. There are many residential streets with free parking places close to subway stops in the inner suburbs. I guess it's where I would park if I visited in the middle of a road trip:
https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=cr%C3%...21.95,,0,15.58

I think one would have to pay to park in a similar place in much of Europe. 1-hour parking ends only a couple dozen meters from the subway? Edit: lol found your exact spot!
https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=nyc&hl...,12.7,,0,-1.85

In London at the end I parked Uxbridge and Upminster just off the M25. The tube ride is kinda long but at least one doesn't have to bother with traffic and finding a place. Btw an "outsider" can't park in your London example.

Last edited by Rozenn; 01-13-2014 at 05:53 PM..
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