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Old 01-13-2014, 09:13 AM
 
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I ask this due to a discussion that entered into this subject. It appears that cars are better in terms of gas milage today and that people want to live in sprawling cities/areas. The NYC area used as an example of sprawl in terms of the northeast, but is the sprawl of NYC in line with the sprawl that we see in other regions? Due to this better gas milage, does this mean that growing further out is the way to go? Here are parts of the thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/32984874-post235.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32985264-post236.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32985642-post239.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32986549-post240.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32986647-post242.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32986728-post243.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32987121-post244.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32987140-post245.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32987162-post246.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32987888-post247.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32988623-post248.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32988782-post249.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32989202-post250.html

New York to Fall to 4th place in Population, Behind Florida
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:23 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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for the NYC area, definitely not. The area of the metro is enormous. Building outward would mean horribly long commutes or job sprawl (which mean many jobs would be no longer easily accessible to most of the residents, and driving would go way up). As for sprawl is the way to go, low density sprawl has been the main mode of development for many decades, surely those who want sprawl can get what they want. Even if not the majority, not everyone wants sprawl. It'd be nice to have more non-sprawling options.

I'm not sure why the NYC area is an example of sprawl, it's the densest urban area by far in the Northeast and has a very dense core.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:12 AM
 
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The highest average commutes in NYC occur in Brooklyn neighborhoods, where 45-60 minute average commutes are common. On the other hand, average commutes of 25 minutes or less are common for residents of Patterson or Hackensack (~15 miles outside of Manhattan). Sprawl doesn't increase average commute times and most sprawl cities have shorter average commutes than NYC, Washington D.C., or SF.

This link has a great interactive map of average commute times by zip code:
Compare your commute time to the rest of America
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
The highest average commutes in NYC occur in Brooklyn neighborhoods, where 45-60 minute average commutes are common. On the other hand, average commutes of 25 minutes or less are common for residents of Patterson or Hackensack (~15 miles outside of Manhattan). Sprawl doesn't increase average commute times and most sprawl cities have shorter average commutes than NYC, Washington D.C., or SF.

This link has a great interactive map of average commute times by zip code:
Compare your commute time to the rest of America
Bay Area really isn't that bad, partially because it's decentralized. Aside from "commute hell" (Dublin, Pleasanton) it's 20-30 minutes. LA as well, no advantage to living in the center. It's really only once you get outside the bowl that commutes get bad although IE is now developed enough that it's not really a bedroom community to the extent it was 10 or 20 years ago.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, AUSTINtx
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Unfortunately probably yes. With new energy discoveries and autonomous vehicles it might even get worse.

Of course I also expect the telecommuting percentage to go up which makes that slice of the workforce immune.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Unfortunately probably yes. With new energy discoveries and autonomous vehicles it might even get worse.

Of course I also expect the telecommuting percentage to go up which makes that slice of the workforce immune.
I'd be interested in hearing your argument as to why it's unfortunate.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
The highest average commutes in NYC occur in Brooklyn neighborhoods, where 45-60 minute average commutes are common. On the other hand, average commutes of 25 minutes or less are common for residents of Patterson or Hackensack (~15 miles outside of Manhattan). Sprawl doesn't increase average commute times and most sprawl cities have shorter average commutes than NYC, Washington D.C., or SF.

This link has a great interactive map of average commute times by zip code:
Compare your commute time to the rest of America
I love that almost all of Portland is less than 25 minute commutes. I use to joke that if it takes you more than 15 minutes to get where you are going, you probably passed it.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, AUSTINtx
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Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
I'd be interested in hearing your argument as to why it's unfortunate.

Meaning that it is economically and logistically feasible but will result in devastating environmental consequences with regards to loss of habitat and climate change. Of course this does not apply to large parts of Southern Florida that will be underwater (Source: National Geographic)

Last edited by verybadgnome; 01-14-2014 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:34 AM
 
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Depends on the sprawl, doesn't it? Are subdivisions designed with garden space in mind? Central gathering spots for ridesharing?

You may have already noticed the proliferation of dollar stores in the rural areas. They take the place of the old country stores and will save a lot of gas vs trips to town.

Will telecommuting increase? Multi generation homes eliminate trips to day care? A lot will depend on how lifestyles change.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:57 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,003,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
Depends on the sprawl, doesn't it? Are subdivisions designed with garden space in mind? Central gathering spots for ridesharing?

You may have already noticed the proliferation of dollar stores in the rural areas. They take the place of the old country stores and will save a lot of gas vs trips to town.

Will telecommuting increase? Multi generation homes eliminate trips to day care? A lot will depend on how lifestyles change.
Re: telecommuting, I wonder how high the bar is set to reach the tipping point. It's becoming more and more practical. WebEx, Skype, Go2MyPC/Meeting, VoIP, VPNs are all making it practical for a lot of jobs, but it hasn't caught on. I can't imaging what ELSE it needs, or how much easier it can get at this point.
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