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Old 01-16-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,436 posts, read 11,937,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Maybe, generally successful downtowns have plenty of normal shops as well as upscale shops. In any case, weak center city shopping seems to be mainly a USA only pattern. It doesn't really occur elsewhere in the world, so it doesn't make sense to call it a general urban trend, just an American exception (for many, not all American cities).
True enough. My original point though was in desirable areas where the "downtown" hadn't been built up enough that it's mainly a cluster of large office buildings, "downtown" shopping is still desirable in the U.S. It might have less hardware stores, and more restaurants than in the past, but it's still bumpin anywhere there's a large enough cluster of upper-middle class people.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
For starts, it is NOT true that suburbs don't have business areas. It's these type of questions that make some of us wonder if the people who post them have ever been in a suburb. It isn't even true that new shopping areas aren't being built. After years of waiting, Superior Town Center under way at McCaslin and U.S. 36 - Boulder Daily Camera

1. Please post some actual examples. "Substantial" can mean just about anything. I believe that there are different criteria for different types of businesses. Businesses that don't serve customers directly, e.g. engineering offices for one example, have different requirements from retail. I think businesses like beauty shops and doctor's offices have different requirements as well.

2. I have never heard this "uniform setback for road widening" line before. And if you go to any downtown, the stores there have a uniform setback as well, at least in most places.

3. That's ass*uming the OP Is referring to business districts where everyone walks. That's not true, even in "the city".

What do you mean "semi-hidden" parking structures? It's kind of hard to hide a parking garage. IIRC, Belmar in Lakewood has parking garages, but they're certainly not "hidden".
That might be somewhat regional. I was simply astounded that people were unaware that suburbs almost always have shopping and business areas. That's reserved to a very, very select few suburbs. Say Los Altos Hills which has an outright ban on any commercial building within the city limits. Very rare. That's also why you've got a lot of businesses that open up right outside of it (Tesla, VMWare, etc, are all right on the boarder of Los Altos Hills). Those are the very rare exceptions to the rules. There are most certainly business areas in, say, Elk Grove. Some even have pretty nice little downtown areas.
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:04 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
That might be somewhat regional. I was simply astounded that people were unaware that suburbs almost always have shopping and business areas. That's reserved to a very, very select few suburbs. Say Los Altos Hills which has an outright ban on any commercial building within the city limits. Very rare. That's also why you've got a lot of businesses that open up right outside of it (Tesla, VMWare, etc, are all right on the boarder of Los Altos Hills). Those are the very rare exceptions to the rules. There are most certainly business areas in, say, Elk Grove. Some even have pretty nice little downtown areas.
Which is why I asked the OP to give an example. Some outer, very low density suburbs are nearly free of any businesses, but zero isn't too common. Llyod Harbor doesn't:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lloyd...+York&t=m&z=13

but it's upper class suburbia on very large lots by the water, so some ways a similar situation to Los Altos Hills.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
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Default Zoning laws are municipal, not state level

Quote:
Originally Posted by minos16 View Post
I've heard it's due to the way zoning laws work in the states, but this concept always confused me.

Why don't more suburbs have a shopping small or store area within? It seems logical to have a central area with good walkability and entertainment. I can understand why somebody wouldn't want a gas station next door but a mini- down town area would be pretty acceptable I think.
Smart development money sets aside a center chunk of ground for just such development.
The hole in the donut then becomes an upgradeable piece of land that the local city council pretty much can't say no to: your shopping centre, rec. centre, and various fast food places all go in there, surrounded by homes/townhomes/condos.

San Diego's Big Bear did it decades ago; that's why you'll not be able to find a cheap eat place in the suburbs. It's all franchise food and you'll buy what they tell you to buy at their price.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,885,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
That might be somewhat regional. I was simply astounded that people were unaware that suburbs almost always have shopping and business areas. That's reserved to a very, very select few suburbs. Say Los Altos Hills which has an outright ban on any commercial building within the city limits. Very rare. That's also why you've got a lot of businesses that open up right outside of it (Tesla, VMWare, etc, are all right on the boarder of Los Altos Hills). Those are the very rare exceptions to the rules. There are most certainly business areas in, say, Elk Grove. Some even have pretty nice little downtown areas.
Anyone want to come up with a list of suburbs that have no businesses. Los Altos Hills is one.

1. Los Altos Hills
2. Cherry Hills Village

Thats the only ones I can think of. Please add to it.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Lloyd Harbor, as I mentioned earlier
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
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I'm not sure what the OP is meaning. I am a lifelong suburbanite. I've never known of a municipality that had no businesses.

Do you mean why don't suburbs have big business areas? Some do. Clayton, a suburb of St. Louis certainly does, and the inner ring suburban municipalities do as well. Even the outer ring suburbs have some businesses.

The part of Vancouver, WA that I live in, feels very suburban to me, and there are plenty of businesses of all types.

Perhaps the OP should refine what he or she means?
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,094,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Anyone want to come up with a list of suburbs that have no businesses. Los Altos Hills is one.

1. Los Altos Hills
2. Cherry Hills Village

Thats the only ones I can think of. Please add to it.
I don't believe that Rolling Hills, CA, has any either. They don't let my kind in, however. There's probably a few other enclaves of the incredibly wealthy. For the other 99.9% of us, however, I think it's fairly safe to say that suburbs have businesses.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:06 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,634,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Anyone want to come up with a list of suburbs that have no businesses. Los Altos Hills is one.

1. Los Altos Hills
2. Cherry Hills Village

Thats the only ones I can think of. Please add to it.
Not Cherry Hills:

Yelp | Search Businesses In Cherry Hills Village, CO
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:01 AM
 
3,492 posts, read 4,959,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minos16 View Post
Why don't more suburbs have a shopping small or store area within? It seems logical to have a central area with good walkability and entertainment. I can understand why somebody wouldn't want a gas station next door but a mini- down town area would be pretty acceptable I think.
I live in the suburbs. If this neighborhood had a mini-downtown area it would have been less desirable to me.

Due to economies of scale, that mini-downtown area would have had high prices relative to the quality they produced. Spoken in another way, the value would have been low relative to what I can acquire by driving a few miles.

Therefore, the small business area would only present me with more traffic and sound, but not with a new opportunity for the experience I want. Since I am unwilling to pay high prices when I can pay lower prices, I would not over pay, no matter how many planners told me I should.

I have a gas station about half a mile to a mile from here. I like that. I want to be able to buy gas, and they are usually within 5 to 10 cents of the price of gas at the Sam's club and Costco. If I am low, I will stop and buy 3 to 5 gallons. Then I will fill up the next time I visit Sam's.

To reflect on another post. I am well within the 99%. My family's income is near the median family income for the USA. Due to prudent fiscal planning, we were able to purchase a home in an upper middle class neighborhood. A great credit score, decent down payment, and shopping for the right bank will do that.

It's not that there are no businesses, but they are not in the neighborhoods. They are right off the main roads that are outside the neighborhood. I'm happy to have those businesses a mile from my house. I would not want them a quarter mile from the house.
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