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Old 01-26-2014, 05:49 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,957,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
OK, now I throw in the Market-Frankford El (generally considered 'heavy') and the subway-surface system (not 'heavy') in Philadelphia, both of which are (the same) nonstandard gauge. And the Newark (NJ) city subway, which operates partially on a freight ROW.
The El is heavy rail.

Hardly anyone outside of SEPTA says "subway/surface" - most people say "the trolleys" occasionally you'll hear "the green line" and sometimes, to distinguish them from the Route 15, 101 or 102, you'll hear "the green line trolleys"

The green line trolleys are streetcars. They run in the street in West Philly and then enter a tunnel when they get to University City. Running underground doesn't stop them from being streetcars . . . and the reason they use the "Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge" was out of fear of having the trolley lines gobbled up by the standard gauge railroads - no one wanted trains running down their streets.

The Newark City Subway was running PCC trolley cars until relatively recently. It was shut down for awhile not long ago so it could be converted to light rail. The extension to Bloomfield is the part you're talking about that shares a freight ROW . . . but service is infrequent and only during off-peak periods and since it shares a very short section of track (1/4 mile) the freight trains just run when they want to and while freight is operating light rail trains are just locked out of that section of track (basically just the last station on the line).

Quote:
The NJ River Line is even goofier, styled light rail and operating with diesel MUs on a former passenger line.
This is actually an active freight line - Riverline runs for about 18 hours a day and freight gets the other 6. The LRVs they use are quite common in Germany and Switzerland (and are now in use in Austin and San Diego) and make a lot of sense in the interurban applications they're normally used for.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,474,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
The El is heavy rail.

Hardly anyone outside of SEPTA says "subway/surface" - most people say "the trolleys" occasionally you'll hear "the green line" and sometimes, to distinguish them from the Route 15, 101 or 102, you'll hear "the green line trolleys"

The green line trolleys are streetcars. They run in the street in West Philly and then enter a tunnel when they get to University City. Running underground doesn't stop them from being streetcars . . . and the reason they use the "Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge" was out of fear of having the trolley lines gobbled up by the standard gauge railroads - no one wanted trains running down their streets.
That may be true but it's still a legit subway line. The only major difference between the green line(subway portion) and other subway systems in Philly is that it's a light rail subway instead of a heavy rail subway.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview/...sw!2e0!6m1!1e1



Kawasaki Single-End Car 9004 On The 11 @ 30th Street Station [ SEPTA Light Rail ] - YouTube

Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 01-26-2014 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Hardly anyone outside of SEPTA says "subway/surface"
I tend to use the terms KYW-1060 used when I lived there.
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
I tend to use the terms KYW-1060 used when I lived there.
sure, if you're over the age of 60 and your only contact with the outside world is a news radio station then I could see that.
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:20 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,957,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
That may be true but it's still a legit subway line. The only major difference between the green line(subway portion) and other subway systems in Philly is that it's a light rail subway instead of a heavy rail subway.
Been on them more times than I can remember.

We can all agree that they run underground. If you've been following the rest of the thread I think everyone here understands that any mode can run in a tunnel.

The distinction is about the mode, capabilities, capacity, etc and to be more specific the type of vehicle.

The difference between the green line and the subway or the el is that a typical 6 car consist on the blue or orange lines can carry 1000 people. A SEPTA trolley can carry around 100 people.

With a top speed of ~50mph I'd also hesitate to call it "light rail". It's a streetcar. A trolley.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
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Going back to high speed BRT, we recently implemented a system with tolled "express lanes" on the highways which busses use between the suburban park-and-ride stations, which are also major transfer points, and downtown. Busses drive at 55 mph most of the way (~10-20 miles or so, depending on the route)...at least in theory. But what has happened is the express lanes just got clogged up with cars at rush hour, which delays the busses and makes it unreliable if you didn't drive and you have to make a transfer, or even if you have somewhere to drive to after getting off the bus. IMO, the approach is fundamentally flawed: The system can only be reliable if there is light traffic, and if this is the case, there is probably not enough demand to support the busses in the first place! It is far better to build a proper light rail, commuter rail, or a genuine BRT system.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:46 PM
 
3,094 posts, read 3,196,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
Going back to high speed BRT, we recently implemented a system with tolled "express lanes" on the highways which busses use between the suburban park-and-ride stations, which are also major transfer points, and downtown. Busses drive at 55 mph most of the way (~10-20 miles or so, depending on the route)...at least in theory. But what has happened is the express lanes just got clogged up with cars at rush hour, which delays the busses ....
Ahh - they took dedicated bus lanes and converted them to Lexus Lanes or bastardized a Bus Lane plan into Lexus Lanes. Well they either need to raise the toll on the express lanes until it thins out the traffic or turn it into Bus Lanes only. Sort of confirms my opinion of HOV and bus lanes that they try to subsidize by charging a toll for those who don't meet the criteria.
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdscott View Post
Aspiring urban planner here. Is there a such thing as High Speed BRT? Meaning, BRT with it's own dedicated ROW but travels at higher rate of speed than normal BRT buses, say 79 mph.
Yeah, there were a couple that were implemented.



And another one:

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Old 01-27-2014, 11:41 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,957,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
Ahh - they took dedicated bus lanes and converted them to Lexus Lanes or bastardized a Bus Lane plan into Lexus Lanes. Well they either need to raise the toll on the express lanes until it thins out the traffic or turn it into Bus Lanes only. Sort of confirms my opinion of HOV and bus lanes that they try to subsidize by charging a toll for those who don't meet the criteria.


raise the tolls and/or change it to HOV-3

. . . do these lanes in South Florida have their own exits or do they have to merge back into traffic?
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,474,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Been on them more times than I can remember.

We can all agree that they run underground. If you've been following the rest of the thread I think everyone here understands that any mode can run in a tunnel.

The distinction is about the mode, capabilities, capacity, etc and to be more specific the type of vehicle.

The difference between the green line and the subway or the el is that a typical 6 car consist on the blue or orange lines can carry 1000 people. A SEPTA trolley can carry around 100 people.

With a top speed of ~50mph I'd also hesitate to call it "light rail". It's a streetcar. A trolley.
It's also similar to Boston's Green line, which happens to be the oldest subway line in the United States.
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