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Old 01-28-2014, 02:50 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Here's why reducing the HOV lane limits can be a bad idea:

Human Transit: on bus lanes, britain can learn from los angeles

Note in the UK, the Conservative Party planned to change the bus lane to a regular car lane, another good example for the "is favoring transit a left/right disagreement?"

In 1999, then state senator Hilda Solis authored a bill, Senate Bill 63, to drop the carpool definition from three occupants to two, which passed both the state Assembly and Senate and was signed by Governor Gray Davis on July 12, 1999.

In fact, the actual number of people moved on the busway dropped, meaning that the lowered requirements did not attract new carpoolers. Instead, many carpoolers previously forced to triple up moved to two-person carpools, which increased the vehicle volume on the roadway and consequently resulted in severe congestion. As a result of the congestion, many individuals abandoned carpooling and decided to drive alone. Speeds on the busway dropped markedly from 65 mph (105 km/h) before the experiment to 20 mph (32 km/h) during the experiment
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:09 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Here's why reducing the HOV lane limits can be a bad idea:

Human Transit: on bus lanes, britain can learn from los angeles

Note in the UK, the Conservative Party planned to change the bus lane to a regular car lane, another good example for the "is favoring transit a left/right disagreement?"

In 1999, then state senator Hilda Solis authored a bill, Senate Bill 63, to drop the carpool definition from three occupants to two, which passed both the state Assembly and Senate and was signed by Governor Gray Davis on July 12, 1999.

In fact, the actual number of people moved on the busway dropped, meaning that the lowered requirements did not attract new carpoolers. Instead, many carpoolers previously forced to triple up moved to two-person carpools, which increased the vehicle volume on the roadway and consequently resulted in severe congestion. As a result of the congestion, many individuals abandoned carpooling and decided to drive alone. Speeds on the busway dropped markedly from 65 mph (105 km/h) before the experiment to 20 mph (32 km/h) during the experiment
Currently, our HOV rules say two people. I think if they make it three, some two person carpools will quit and drive themselves, rather than adding a third. Carpools are hard enough with two people. The more you add, the worse it gets. Trust me.
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:25 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Currently, our HOV rules say two people. I think if they make it three, some two person carpools will quit and drive themselves, rather than adding a third. Carpools are hard enough with two people. The more you add, the worse it gets. Trust me.
Some will quit, others will grab a third person even if inconvenient lessening congestion as the example showed. If the HOV lane does not have congestion with the current rules there's little benefit to the three person rule, if it does, the rule could increase capacity.
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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My scenario is as likely as the one from your link. We already have bus transit; this would just give the buses their own lane all the way. (There already is an HOV lane on part of US 36.) Car pools are a PIA. They have to be worth doing, or they don't work. Three people, with their own peculiarities (this one is always late, this one always has to stop for gas, etc) is harder than two.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Currently, our HOV rules say two people. I think if they make it three, some two person carpools will quit and drive themselves, rather than adding a third. Carpools are hard enough with two people. The more you add, the worse it gets. Trust me.
The problem I've seen is that on the Route I take the HOV-2 lane has a bunch of cars with a driver and a child in a car seat! I remember reading an article that one of the big changes when they added HOV-2 was the increase in parents using child care near their work instead of near their home. Instant carpool!
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:36 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
The problem I've seen is that on the Route I take the HOV-2 lane has a bunch of cars with a driver and a child in a car seat! I remember reading an article that one of the big changes when they added HOV-2 was the increase in parents using child care near their work instead of near their home. Instant carpool!
Well everyone knows kids aren't people! Seriously, that makes about as much sense as having another baby to increase one's welfare check. Sorry, not buying.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Currently, our HOV rules say two people. I think if they make it three, some two person carpools will quit and drive themselves, rather than adding a third. Carpools are hard enough with two people. The more you add, the worse it gets. Trust me.
Weren't they changing the US-36 BRT/Lexus Lane to 3 people?

Think it was proposed but can't remember if passed?
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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Well everyone knows kids aren't people! Seriously, that makes about as much sense as having another baby to increase one's welfare check. Sorry, not buying.
Not buying that it is done or that the legislature was that sloppy in writing the law? The law says 'two occupants'. A child is an occupant. ( I was told by a County Officer that they have been told not to ticket cars with one adult and any number of children because that it will be thrown out if taken to court). Also the various Law enforcement agencies have the opinion that any law enforcement vehicle can use the lane for any reason (including Federal Agencies that are commuting into DC not patrolling). On top of all this since the HOV are not physically seperated from the main lanes there is general cheating and there are times when patrolmen are told not to enforce HOV because between the cheaters diving for the general lane and the gawkers watching the flashing lights if they do pull someone over traffic gets clogged up if they enforce it
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:32 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
Weren't they changing the US-36 BRT/Lexus Lane to 3 people?

Think it was proposed but can't remember if passed?
I think it's a done deal. I'm not at my regular computer right now to check.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:36 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
Not buying that it is done or that the legislature was that sloppy in writing the law? The law says 'two occupants'. A child is an occupant. ( I was told by a County Officer that they have been told not to ticket cars with one adult and any number of children because that it will be thrown out if taken to court). Also the various Law enforcement agencies have the opinion that any law enforcement vehicle can use the lane for any reason (including Federal Agencies that are commuting into DC not patrolling). On top of all this since the HOV are not physically seperated from the main lanes there is general cheating and there are times when patrolmen are told not to enforce HOV because between the cheaters diving for the general lane and the gawkers watching the flashing lights if they do pull someone over traffic gets clogged up if they enforce it
Not buying that people are changing their day care because of H O V 3. (Sorry, I'm on my kindle and incorrect won't let me post some acronyms.)
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