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Houses #1, 2 and 3 are similar to my parents' house in Beaver Falls. That's what I mean. There is a cookie cutter plan to them all.
I think you missed my point. I know the first 3 are the same shape, (the other 3 pairs are just about the same shape, too) but the details make them different. Modern houses have different shapes, but the details are the same.
Location: Plum Borough, east suburb of Pittsburgh, PA
144 posts, read 224,499 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by recycled
I live in a suburb that did not exist 20 years ago. Everything around here is new and fairly cookie cutter. I live in a 1+1 apartment that is walking distance (1/2 to 3/4 mile) to grocery store, big box stores, movie theaters, at least a dozen restaurants, and nearly every other type of store I need. I ride a bike to work every day, about 25 miles round trip along our suburban streets that have nice wide bike lanes in most places. This area is one of the best for bike riding of any metro area I have lived in. I also use a bike for all sorts of nearby errands, in addition to walking to local stores. Not all suburban dwellers are car-a-holics, so it's not fair to paint a broad brush generalization about suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
A lot of places that today people badge as "city neighborhoods" are really just old suburbs. A lot of the suburbs built 100 years ago are as cookie cutter as can be-- but for some reason, they escape the blame of the urban elitists. Some far-flung leapfrogging sprawl really is a disaster, but contiguously built suburban developments over time become more and more centrally located. Many cities, like Denver, have light rail systems that reach all way into the suburbs-- so you can still live in the suburbs and commute downtown without driving the whole way.
So to answer the original question-- some are, but most people who live in the suburbs are normal people-- from all walks of life. I agree that burning gallons and gallons of gasoline everyday is a problem-- but that's the "tragedy of the commons," not an individual moral problem. I think the "new urbanists" are really elitists-- wannabees, really.
Good points. I'm personally of the opinion that New Urbanism is the way to go for a lot of our future developments. We're about to run into a wall if we try to sprawl further and further out; who wants to be an extreme commuter, especially if you're not from the NY or LA metro area? With that said, any time New Urbanists use ad hominem attacks on people who live in places like low density developments, it just strikes me as ridiculous. Can't people agree to disagree, and argue in a civil manner? I do not like when the terms "cookie cutter" and "soulless" are thrown around to describe planned communities, and why must people take shots at supposed "SUV driving soccer moms?" You're not helping the dialog at all when you're doing that. I live in a car dependent subdivision built in 1998 (about to live in downtown Pittsburgh starting in September), and I talk to my neighbors. A few of them lived in dense urban areas at some point during their lives, and many of them still go down to the city of Pittsburgh on occasion. So to typecast all suburbanites as car addicts anonymous and big box worshippers is almost like categorizing all rural people as ignorant rednecks or all people living in urban cores as criminals. Which is to say it's ridiculous and denigrating!
Interesting timing on the revival of this thread. It was just in the past several weeks that there was some discussion in another Urban Planning thread about whether there is a certain smugness among city-dwelling 'burb bashers. This was the very thread I cited as an example of there being at least times when there is unquestionably some arrogance of this sort. Calling people "morally inept" for their choices about where to live, obviously failing to acknowledge or understand the complexities of those decisions for many people, is really about as haughty as it gets.
In the vein of the posts the preceding post quotes, I could go into some detail about my current residence in a suburb no one would be likely to think of as anything but a suburb, and how at this time I manage nicely without owning a car. I'll let that general description suffice for now, as I've gone into a bit of detail about that on other threads, in this never-ending stream of put-down-the-suburbs threads showing up here and at General U.S.
I'm not sure what the point of reviving this thread was.
The title is rather inflammatory, and there's a good chance it will lead to angry back and forth attack and defend suburbia — usually full of generalizations. These debates have gotten old and often pointless, more specific discussion is better. If you have something specific you want to discuss about suburbs, I encourage you to start a new thread. Thread will remain open for the time being, but I may close it if there's a danger it will get out of hand.
I'd like to get your thoughts on this one. For many of us, suburbs/exurbs seem to be a byproduct of conspicuous consumption. Some people actually do move out there for good schools, less crime, etc but then again there are people who just like a jumbo house to park their SUVs (and then complain about gas prices).
Where does this silly idea come from? Suburbanites are no more material-driven then those who live in the city. City dwellers may not live in a 2800 square foot McMansion, but their 1200 suare foot condo likely cost more and is just a big a status symbol.
I personally live in the subburbs because I fell city living is way too expensive and overrated (at least as far as Toronto is concerned). I also wanted to own my own house on a good-sized plot of land and have zero interest being crammed into a tiny apartment and being at the mercy of my neighbour's noises, odours and bug infestations. As for being "morally inept", all I can say is I have met a great deal more douchebags in Toronto than I have ever met in the neighborhood where I live. If suburbanites are morally inept then city dwellers are utterly soulless. You could drop dead on the street in Toronto and people would just step over your corpse without breaking stride.
As for being "morally inept", all I can say is I have met a great deal more douchebags in Toronto than I have ever met in the neighborhood where I live. If suburbanites are morally inept then city dwellers are utterly soulless.
For New York, I'd say the number of douches are about the same city and suburb. It's just the type changes a bit. Depends on your style, really. The rather brusque tone you get is metro-wide, though it's not as bad as the stereotype.
I've been out of the area long enough, that when it wasn't that crowded, I got tempted to acknowledge passer-bys.
For New York, I'd say the number of douches are about the same city and suburb. It's just the type changes a bit. Depends on your style, really. The rather brusque tone you get is metro-wide, though it's not as bad as the stereotype.
I've been out of the area long enough, that when it wasn't that crowded, I got tempted to acknowledge passer-bys.
Yes, it can get embarassing when someone acknowledges you on the sidewalk, but you weren't expecting it. You wind up saying, " Oh....yeah....hi....".....
Not really a common experience in the urban Northeast, though..
Location: Plum Borough, east suburb of Pittsburgh, PA
144 posts, read 224,499 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
I'm not sure what the point of reviving this thread was.
The title is rather inflammatory, and there's a good chance it will lead to angry back and forth attack and defend suburbia — usually full of generalizations. These debates have gotten old and often pointless, more specific discussion is better. If you have something specific you want to discuss about suburbs, I encourage you to start a new thread. Thread will remain open for the time being, but I may close it if there's a danger it will get out of hand.
I apologize; I should have taken more time to look at the date/time of the post and realize that this one was long finished. As for specific ideas, I'll probably end up starting new threads on walkability and infill and use Pittsburgh-specific examples. I'm not one either for demonizing someone based on where they live or what type of place they live. So let's hope if this thread doesn't disappear for good, we can actually enlighten each other, instead of pretending we're all hardcore behind our Almighty Keyboards and bashing each other. Again, I regret jump starting this thread.
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