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Old 02-01-2014, 09:04 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Sacramento has Nugget Markets.

It's locally-owned. Headquartered in Woodland, CA, with stores in the Sacramento region. It also consistently ranks as one of the top employers by Forbes. There's also the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op. San Francisco has Bi-Rite and Rainbow as far as major grocery stores. Lots of smaller ones, a few of which are decent.
Most NYC grocery stores are smaller grocery stores, the typical large chain stores don't fit. Often overpriced, vary in quality. Some of them (Key Food and C-Town) appear to be chains but aren't: they're independent supermarkets that cooperate to buy supplies. Here's a view of a few:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Key+F...189.94,,0,2.01

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=C+Tow...2,66.34,,0,1.1
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,864,337 times
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I am pretty lucky. I live in a non food dessert part of Oakland. But in my area we have lots of good non chain options. Produce stands that have fresh stuff, Asian groceries in the busy Chinatown and indie markets like Farmer joes and Berkeley Bowl with high quality and affordable produce.

San Francisco is pretty annoying. Not many full service grocery stores, but the bodegas in the mission and the markets in Chinatown have fresh produce.
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
1,092 posts, read 1,639,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
I will chime in and say no, we have not. Cities/metro areas grow as population expands, and growth for the most part has to go "out". Who exactly is subsidizing this supposed sprawl? People in the city core certainly are not paying for water mains or roads in the suburbs, they are not paying for the land stores use as parking lots. That is paid by those local residents and those municipalities- people in Seattle don't pay anything for what I use up here in the suburb of Lynnwood.
That is not necessarily true, at least not here in St. Louis. I'd imagine Seattle has something similar to the St. Louis's Metropolitan Sewer District, which is a regional sewer district and tax funded entity. Obviously the denser the neighborhood the less cost for infrastructure per resident, that includes roads and sewers. Here in St. Louis we are going to see a big increase in our water/sewer bill premiums to update our 200 year old sewer system and its going to be the same tax per person whether you live on an acre lot 20 miles out or a row house 1 mile from city hall, so in a sense urban residents are subsidizing suburbanites for their inefficient use of public infrastructure.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,130 posts, read 16,218,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
That is not necessarily true, at least not here in St. Louis. I'd imagine Seattle has something similar to the St. Louis's Metropolitan Sewer District, which is a regional sewer district and tax funded entity. Obviously the denser the neighborhood the less cost for infrastructure per resident, that includes roads and sewers. Here in St. Louis we are going to see a big increase in our water/sewer bill premiums to update our 200 year old sewer system and its going to be the same tax per person whether you live on an acre lot 20 miles out or a row house 1 mile from city hall, so in a sense urban residents are subsidizing suburbanites for their inefficient use of public infrastructure.
Are you updating the piping or updating the water treatment plant? Above certain densities, which happens pretty quickly, it's really not cheaper. For example, San Francisco spends several times what my suburb spends on infrastructure per capita.

I don't know how you do it out there. In California, the piping is on the city. With new suburbs, they finance it with Mello-Roos which is basically a second property tax rate of around $2-3k per year. That builds your sewer pipelines, roads, schools, parks, libraries, and so forth.

I have my doubts that the acre lots 20 miles out are even connected to the sewer system anyway. Hopefully they're assessing the tax by parcel.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,160 posts, read 103,094,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
That is not necessarily true, at least not here in St. Louis. I'd imagine Seattle has something similar to the St. Louis's Metropolitan Sewer District, which is a regional sewer district and tax funded entity. Obviously the denser the neighborhood the less cost for infrastructure per resident, that includes roads and sewers. Here in St. Louis we are going to see a big increase in our water/sewer bill premiums to update our 200 year old sewer system and its going to be the same tax per person whether you live on an acre lot 20 miles out or a row house 1 mile from city hall, so in a sense urban residents are subsidizing suburbanites for their inefficient use of public infrastructure.
You know, it does your cause no good to make it sound like a "vast . . . conspiracy" against city residents.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:09 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You know, it does your cause no good to make it sound like a "vast . . . conspiracy" against city residents.
I don't believe that there is a vast conspiracy against "city" residents but I do believe that there is a massive misunderstanding how the decisions we make in our development models affect our ability to pay for them over time. I have seen this misunderstanding turn into resentment by those in suburban parts of cities because of the targetted investment in their respective cities' cores. What they don't realize is that the targetted investment in their city's core is intended to raise the revenues over time that will be necessary to maintain the suburan type infrastructure that isn't generating enough tax revenue.

I think most sunbelt cities are going through this transition now as they seek to find their centers and position themselves for economic stability. If these cities don't invest and make their land more economically productive, they will surely face staggering financial issues as the post-war suburban infrastructure begins to decay.

Last edited by rnc2mbfl; 02-05-2014 at 08:52 PM..
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Another angle on how we came to sprawl (racism).

A Very Brief History of Why Americans Hate Their Commutes - Martin Wachs - The Atlantic Cities
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,542 posts, read 60,193,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Another angle on how we came to sprawl (racism).
Interesting how you turned two sentences of a lengthy article - the point of which has nothing to do with racism - into hysterical hyperbole.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,864,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Interesting how you turned two sentences of a lengthy article - the point of which has nothing to do with racism - into hysterical hyperbole.
**rolls eyes**

White flight (and redlining) were a pretty big contributor to sprawl.especially when not everyone was allowed to join in the sprawl party, and it it led to the decline of housing prices in the urban areas.......

It isn't a big leap here.

In fact most of our urban problems are directly related to white flight.
1. redevelopment efforts tearing up neighborhoods
2. crappy urban schools (we pushed out the middle income people from the city)
3. blight

........

We've covered most of the other angles in that article, as I mentioned. It is a new one, that wasn't in the discussion.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,130 posts, read 16,218,310 times
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I had an interesting conversation with one of the bailiffs at SF a few months back. He grew up in Oakland. Obviously middle-class, but it's pretty tough in the Bay Area to make it. I can't remember what his wife does. They moved out of Oakland to Concord a few years ago when the kids were getting close to school age. Concord doesn't have a great rep, but the schools up in the part near Clayton are quite good and it's surprisingly affordable by Bay Area standards. By stereotype, that's uncommon for a black family to black flight to a suburb. Today black flight is in force. Antioch, Concord, Brentwood all doubled or quadrupled. Brentwood now has a pretty even distribution racially. It's 6.2 vs 6.7 for the Bay Area as a whole, although it's still lower than Alameda County (12%) or Contra Costa (9%).

Particularly, black flight in Alameda County began in earnest somewhere between 1990 and 2000. It's not just the middle-class either. Stockton, Manteca, Sacramento... they're all seeing increasing black population. I can tell you that the rapidly becoming black neighborhoods in Stockton aren't all being filled up by the middle-class. Weston Ranch is mostly renting out to Section 8 renters who at least mostly have their lives together. The central neighborhoods are mostly where the felons are landing. They're cheap, $400-600 for an apartment, $800 for a house. They might not be any better than Oaklands rough neighborhoods, but they're cheaper.

Last edited by Malloric; 02-06-2014 at 01:01 PM..
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