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Old 01-29-2014, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
No, but a river is usually something attractive to be near, unlike a noisy elevated highway, which is undesireable to be immediately near.
It wasn't always that way. Often the rivers were dirty and smelled bad. Rumor has it a river in Cleveland caught fire once. Of course many rivers have heavy traffic as well. Look at the Mississippi.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Dunno.

I lived across the street from a rather noisy bar once. I'm completely for zoning them out of residential neighborhoods.
re: Bars?

It depends entirely on the form factor of development. If we are talking the 2-3 floor mixed use typical of early 1900s development on a main street, I wouldn't want to live on top of a bar. But you can definitely create a type of building where it would not be an issue at all. You just need to balance construction, insulation, window placement and entrance placement. You could even add in offices on top of the bar, then housing....

I probably would never live in a small development atop a bar or grocery store...if there was a possibility I would have to see or hear the loading doc. But a bakery or boutique is a no brainer.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
The 580/880 in Oakland are developed right up to it.
We have a theory, that in Oakland they built the freeway and ten realized...."crap we need onramps."

Finding the freeway entrances in Oakland, particularly in 580 and 24 is completely random. Like there is a driveway for a house, and then a ramp. My regular entrance, well the adjacent off-ramp, basically has a home right next to it. There is a small lot separating it from the freeway.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
It does, but the highways are much less intrusive in Chicago leaving many of the neighborhoods intact. The Northside doesn't have any highways cutting through it. The Westside only have a couple highways, I-94 and I-55 both run along the river rather than cutting through neighborhoods, though 290 does cut through neighborhoods which is a negative. Then of course the Southside has large areas without highways cutting through it, but also lacks rail service, and then has other areas where the highways do cut through neighborhoods.
I90/I94 going northwest is the Kennedy and there is no river there. Going south it is the Dan Ryan. The only difference is that the Kennedy is smaller and mostly elevated. I55 does cut through neighborhoods and the south side just lacks EL service past 95th street. There are a fair number of Metra lines and stops on the south side.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Rochester's Inner Loop is roughly 3.3 miles long. I counted 17 surface streets, 1 pedestrian bride, and 1 pedestrian tunnel that crosses the Inner Loop. That comes out to an access point every 917 feet on average. Why do you feel like Rochester's downtown is "completely cut off" from surrounding neighborhoods?
It feels completely cut off on the ground. It was the first thing I noticed when I went to downtown Rochester.

Not all city freeways end up feeling really cut off. My ramp doesn't feel too different on either side, as is true of the exit immediately east of mine. But head down the freeway a few exits and above the freeway and below the freeway is like night and day literally.

Like here:

5-6 blocks below the freeway: http://goo.gl/maps/ju2zg
5-6 blocks above the freeway: http://goo.gl/maps/nOfb3
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:00 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
re: Bars?

It depends entirely on the form factor of development. If we are talking the 2-3 floor mixed use typical of early 1900s development on a main street, I wouldn't want to live on top of a bar. But you can definitely create a type of building where it would not be an issue at all. You just need to balance construction, insulation, window placement and entrance placement. You could even add in offices on top of the bar, then housing....

I probably would never live in a small development atop a bar or grocery store...if there was a possibility I would have to see or hear the loading doc. But a bakery or boutique is a no brainer.
Bakeries like grocery stores need to load stuff and I don't think any kind of building is going to block the loud noise that can come from a bar and I don't think I would be much impressed by offices on top of an bar unless they were related to the bar.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:49 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,568,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
We lived on a city street, kind of mid-town. When I have more time, I'll post a picture. Thanks for the tutorial on "mixed use". It seems to mean what someone wants it to mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Mixed use means mixed use. It doesn't mean all uses, just a mix of residential, commercial, and industrial. Always thought that was self explanatory.
Well, of course it's self explanatory. The problem is, a lot of people don't seem to understand the seamier side of mixed use. Take a look at the map below. My family lived on 14th St., near 2nd Avenue. If you follow 14th St. down to the river, the whole empty area from 1st Ave. to the river was once a steel mill.

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...ed=0CCkQ8gEwAA

Moltrup Steel Products site - Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:04 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, of course it's self explanatory. The problem is, a lot of people don't seem to understand the seamier side of mixed use. Take a look at the map below. My family lived on 14th St., near 2nd Avenue. If you follow 14th St. down to the river, the whole empty area from 1st Ave. to the river was once a steel mill.
Maybe, if people are advocating for no usage zoning restrictions whatsoever, rather less of them. It's not an all or nothing situation. Don't think there have been many (or any?) posters thinking factories should locate right next to homes, at least noxious ones, mostly discussions on mixed use focus on having small shops nearby. People also forget large industry.

That BQE link I posted has warehouses on the other side, even though the homes and warehouses are a short walk away, the truck traffic doesn't go into the residential street.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:06 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
It wasn't always that way. Often the rivers were dirty and smelled bad. Rumor has it a river in Cleveland caught fire once. Of course many rivers have heavy traffic as well. Look at the Mississippi.
If you look at where expressways were built, often they're by a waterfront/river. Maybe because there was extra space, but also because those areas were industrial. Bit of a shame today, though to have what is now an attractive area of a city adjacent to a noisy road, and one that may present a bit of a barrier.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:08 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,568,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
It wasn't always that way. Often the rivers were dirty and smelled bad. Rumor has it a river in Cleveland caught fire once. Of course many rivers have heavy traffic as well. Look at the Mississippi.
It's no rumor!

Cuyahoga River Fire | Cleveland Historical
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