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This one was - it was mostly snow a little ice and very minor indeed. It was only a disaster because of where it hit. A gridded networked city with Transit might have had a difficult afternoon.
My guess is you live somewhere where ice and snow storms don't happen. It would take days to clear the streets if all we had was 30-40 snow trucks and I rather doubt sand is going to be near as effective as salt. So long as snow or ice are on the road the road is either dangerous to drive on or impossible to drive on. This is why northern cities have so many salt trucks and plows to keep roads open and to quickly clear them when they become iced over.
This has nothing to do with "sprawl". There is a certain cadre who posts here, the OP among them, who want to blame any negative event that happens in the country on the SFR / auto based topology that has been used in this country since the end of WWII. They're wrong, and they need to drop it.
These incidents bring up a good opportunity to take a broader look at mobility in a region. Obviouslly sprawl didn't cause a snow/ice storm. But the aftermath is a god opportunity to look more critically at all the methods people use to travel a region.
I.e. in my region, when they were constructing the Bay Bridge, BART (the big commuter rail/subway system) also released data on how they could deal with over crowding on the trains in key stations.
During a big rain storm, there was discussion around how we need better infrastructure to protect station escalators from the elements, since it is a contribution cause to closures and issues.
Sprawl (and limit thoroughfares) contributed to the snowpacalypse. Cities don't need to build to deal with the worst possible traffic day, but redundancy is key. What if the next disaster is a hurricane? How will people move about the region, when everyone will try and leave at the same time? These are good questions to ask.
What if the next disaster is a hurricane? How will people move about the region, when everyone will try and leave at the same time? These are good questions to ask.
Well, planning for a hurricane that far inland is pointless, unless the polar ice caps already have melted. That's not to say Atlanta couldn't be affected by a hurricane, but the likelihood that it would require evacuating the city is extraordinarily slim. Flooding could be an issue should the Chattahoochee River rise to biblical proportions -- should we have enough arks on standby?
Sci-fi scenario aside, in the face of any disaster other than snow and ice, there won't be semis jackknifed sliding across three lanes of highway, or people abandoning their cars because they're stuck on ice going up hills. Buses and commuter trains will be a moot point if the region needs to be evacuated.
If you think having an excused absence from work or an excused absence from school is more important than your safety and that of your family...well how did spending the night on the freeway work for ya and I am talking about the people who did! Those children will remember that little "you have to go to school so you can have an excused absence IF the snow comes"....sorry honey if you have to spend the night away from home and family (kind of scary, but we have to do it for an excused absence). Just like hurricanes. They cannot be predicted exactly to hit at an exact time and place. Weather changes constantly....make an informed decision and take the UNEXCUSED ABSENCE FROM WORK AND/OR SCHOOL. People have to use common sense, which is sorely lacking these days.
Parents send their kids to school when they're snotting, puking and exfoliating. Many times because they don't have alternate plans.
If work is open and schools are open then they go. Doesn't matter if a storm is predicted. Even on school delay days parents drop their kids off at the regular time. On in-service days when schools are closed for students parents will drop their kids off. I'm talking high school. I don't even want to imagine what elementary is like.
Really, not so much. We've had the same type of problems in NYC, and it's all one city government.
We had a couple inch snow cause gridlock because the buses weren't chained up when they needed to be, and the plows hand't hit some major intersections feeding bridges out of Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
These incidents bring up a good opportunity to take a broader look at mobility in a region. Obviouslly sprawl didn't cause a snow/ice storm. But the aftermath is a god opportunity to look more critically at all the methods people use to travel a region.
I.e. in my region, when they were constructing the Bay Bridge, BART (the big commuter rail/subway system) also released data on how they could deal with over crowding on the trains in key stations.
During a big rain storm, there was discussion around how we need better infrastructure to protect station escalators from the elements, since it is a contribution cause to closures and issues.
Sprawl (and limit thoroughfares) contributed to the snowpacalypse. Cities don't need to build to deal with the worst possible traffic day, but redundancy is key. What if the next disaster is a hurricane? How will people move about the region, when everyone will try and leave at the same time? These are good questions to ask.
Hurricanes are a different animal than snow/ice. While the warning time for this was nearly as long as a hurricane there are a couple differences.
The main difference is that in hurricanes there are plans for an orderly evacuation. Not so for winter storms.
The other difference (and this was the killer during Katrina) also deals with lead time. Governors have been trained to declare a State of Emergency and activate the National Guard well in advance of hurricanes. There's still a learning curve for winter storms, especially in areas that don't experience that severe a storm very often.
I have a cousin who used to be a body man for Mercedes when he lived in Austin. He couldn't sleep when ice or snow was predicted for the region, that was his ranchette and boat money.
Well, planning for a hurricane that far inland is pointless, unless the polar ice caps already have melted. That's not to say Atlanta couldn't be affected by a hurricane, but the likelihood that it would require evacuating the city is extraordinarily slim. Flooding could be an issue should the Chattahoochee River rise to biblical proportions -- should we have enough arks on standby?
Sci-fi scenario aside, in the face of any disaster other than snow and ice, there won't be semis jackknifed sliding across three lanes of highway, or people abandoning their cars because they're stuck on ice going up hills. Buses and commuter trains will be a moot point if the region needs to be evacuated.
It's interesting that the subject of a hurricane was brought up because Atlanta has also been affected by hurricanes.
Atlanta was not affected directly by hurricanes, but was affected indirectly by hurricanes with very-severe gas shortages in 2005 and 2008 when hurricanes both directly affected and threatened the Gulf Coast where almost all of North Georgia's gas supplies come from by way of pipelines.
Flooding was also an issue in 2004, 2005 and particularly in September 2009 when much of the Atlanta region was affected by epic 1,000-year floods that closed down multiple parts of the Interstate system for as many as a few days (Interstates 20 and 285 were closed down for close to 3 days on the west side of the city where they cross the Chattahoochee River, which literally had flooded to biblical proportions).
Flooding was also an issue in 2004, 2005 and particularly in September 2009 when much of the Atlanta region was affected by epic 1,000-year floods that closed down multiple parts of the Interstate system for as many as a few days
Agreed; flooding (and sometimes wind) is the issue when hurricanes move inland, but you don't evacuations for flooding are localized; you wouldn't be emptying out the entire city as you would a coastal city in the face of a hurricane.
Well, planning for a hurricane that far inland is pointless, unless the polar ice caps already have melted. That's not to say Atlanta couldn't be affected by a hurricane, but the likelihood that it would require evacuating the city is extraordinarily slim. Flooding could be an issue should the Chattahoochee River rise to biblical proportions -- should we have enough arks on standby?
Sci-fi scenario aside, in the face of any disaster other than snow and ice, there won't be semis jackknifed sliding across three lanes of highway, or people abandoning their cars because they're stuck on ice going up hills. Buses and commuter trains will be a moot point if the region needs to be evacuated.
A hurricane probaly wold hit ATL, but they could get an influx of coastal residents, or hit by flooding or anything else. No need to not have the conversation.
Tornadoes could happen too. Or something unexpected.
Luckily it was in the middle of the night, when there was little traffic. If it would have happened during the commute, people would have abandoned their cars....
It ended up taking about a month to fix, but the repair was predicted to take 6 months initially. It is a major thoroughfare in the region, and one of the most congested areas of my section of the Bay. Almost everyone heading anywhere east of San Francisco needed to use this overpass. Luckily, this was an area that was impacted during the 1989 quake, and more alternatives were available than then. The traffic impact wasn't terrible, because people were able to prepare, go around, take transit or learn the surface street options.
You don't know what the disaster will be. It is good to have options, and plan for them.
Hopefullt "snopacalypse" opens up conversations for the next big issue.
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hurrican palns for Jade
