U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-01-2014, 10:29 AM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,728,813 times
Reputation: 5402

Advertisements

I came thru Minneapolis metro area on December 9 at about 10 AM.

I 494 was icy, temp was -10, and it took me an hour and a half to go about 17 miles ( 494/94 junction to 494/35 junction.

At times 10 mph, at times parked, stop and go ,..................black ice and too cold for chemicals to work.

(and 10AM is not rush hour )

Don't tell me they have no problems with winter in Twin Cities !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-01-2014, 12:27 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,783,140 times
Reputation: 5420
It is really not a sprawl issue. There is some level of storm that will take out any city. Makes no difference where.

I spent many years in Rochester NY. One year in the 60s we got a storm starting Friday that took the entire city out until Wednesday. Reached the point where the only passable streets were four quadrant arterials kept open by a snow plow every block or so. The cops used those and then snowmobiltes for access to the rest of the city. The drifts were in excess of 18 feet. My wife and I stood on one looking down at the top of city buses.

When I was a child we spent three days snowbound in downtown Pittsburgh. Actually rescued by the Police. Pittsburgh had apparently gotten caught with there snow equipment not yet in service and down an isolated and, for a while, impassable road.

Once spent over 12 hours getting from Binghamton to Syracuse. Road never shut down but the speed end up close to zero. The VW bug in front of us would periodically get blown off the road standing still. Three or four of us would get out and push the young lady back into the travel lane.

Rochester of course was quite good at snow. And it was very unusual to get trapped...though it did happen. We had the plant to shut down one night with everybody still there. Basically the storm came up so fast that drifts blocked streets and parking lots. The plant was supplied with food and drink by snowmobile. The roads were finally passable about 1AM.

So even if you are very good you can get blindsided.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 12:58 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,890,268 times
Reputation: 18049
One could say the same thing with tropical storm wind strength storm in NY. That storm would have been a minor event on gulf coast overall and easily handled.Its just the difference in what people prepare for over time.But has we have learned a large city is perhaps the worse place to be if one needs to leave it in any major disaster as evacuation is near impossible even with best of weather.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 01:25 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
For those of us with no experience.....

I went to Denver on a business trip during the winter. My hotel was around 3/4 of a mile from the client meeting. They asked me if I wanted to rent a car. I declined since it was snowy. I decided to walk and got to see more of downtown. They thought I was crazy....
Don't know who "they" are but maybe "they" were just being thoughtful. Maybe "they" also thought you'd like to see more than just the 3/4 mile from your hotel to the client. I'm not sure what you mean by "for those of us with no experience". Do you mean no experience with Denver, or no experience driving in the snow?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 01:43 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,713,490 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
It is really not a sprawl issue. There is some level of storm that will take out any city. Makes no difference where.

I spent many years in Rochester NY. One year in the 60s we got a storm starting Friday that took the entire city out until Wednesday. Reached the point where the only passable streets were four quadrant arterials kept open by a snow plow every block or so. The cops used those and then snowmobiltes for access to the rest of the city. The drifts were in excess of 18 feet. My wife and I stood on one looking down at the top of city buses.

When I was a child we spent three days snowbound in downtown Pittsburgh. Actually rescued by the Police. Pittsburgh had apparently gotten caught with there snow equipment not yet in service and down an isolated and, for a while, impassable road.

Once spent over 12 hours getting from Binghamton to Syracuse. Road never shut down but the speed end up close to zero. The VW bug in front of us would periodically get blown off the road standing still. Three or four of us would get out and push the young lady back into the travel lane.

Rochester of course was quite good at snow. And it was very unusual to get trapped...though it did happen. We had the plant to shut down one night with everybody still there. Basically the storm came up so fast that drifts blocked streets and parking lots. The plant was supplied with food and drink by snowmobile. The roads were finally passable about 1AM.

So even if you are very good you can get blindsided.
There's a massive difference between a blizzard and a dusting of snow. Atlanta's sprawl was very easily defeated by an incredibly minor weather event. That's a systemic failure and underscores how vulnerable systems can be when there is no resilience or redundancy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 02:00 PM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,728,813 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
There's a massive difference between a blizzard and a dusting of snow. Atlanta's sprawl was very easily defeated by an incredibly minor weather event. That's a systemic failure and underscores how vulnerable systems can be when there is no resilience or redundancy.

why did you leave out the word...........ice...... ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 02:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
There's a massive difference between a blizzard and a dusting of snow. Atlanta's sprawl was very easily defeated by an incredibly minor weather event. That's a systemic failure and underscores how vulnerable systems can be when there is no resilience or redundancy.
These things happen all over the south. It's just that Atlanta got caught unprepared, so to speak. I don't think Atlanta's sprawl had much to do with it. If anything, the lower density should have made it easier for people to travel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 02:17 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,783,140 times
Reputation: 5420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
There's a massive difference between a blizzard and a dusting of snow. Atlanta's sprawl was very easily defeated by an incredibly minor weather event. That's a systemic failure and underscores how vulnerable systems can be when there is no resilience or redundancy.
Nah. I was in a similar ice storm that hit Dallas...a periodic event. Even for high skilled Rochesterians getting to the airport that morning was a significant adventure...and we almost did not make it to the plane as the Hertz bus had not been running. It also took the train out. Dallas was OK in that the storm occurred in the very early morning so everybody simply stayed home until it melted. But if you shifted that storm 8 or 9 hours later nothing in Dallas would have been able to move probably until the next day.

I have also seen a half inch of unexpected ice shut Rochester down. The degree of problem is simply when it happens...you cannot really do anything about it except fix afterwards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 02:26 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,713,490 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
These things happen all over the south. It's just that Atlanta got caught unprepared, so to speak. I don't think Atlanta's sprawl had much to do with it. If anything, the lower density should have made it easier for people to travel.
No - they don't. 18hour long artery lock and complete paralysis does not happen often - can't even recall such and even and certainly not for a mere 2 inches of snow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 02:28 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,856,857 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
For those of us with no experience.....

I went to Denver on a business trip during the winter. My hotel was around 3/4 of a mile from the client meeting. They asked me if I wanted to rent a car. I declined since it was snowy. I decided to walk and got to see more of downtown. They thought I was crazy....
I live in Chicago and have walked home a few times in ICE after taking the bus. Good thing I was young, I fell or nearly fell 3-4 times on that trip. Snow isn't that much a problem provided your feet stay dry. ICE is another story.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top