U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-01-2014, 04:14 PM
 
Location: VA soon to be NC
1,111 posts, read 2,078,394 times
Reputation: 588

Advertisements

I dont think sprawl has anyting to do with it. There are many metro areas that have sprawl. The ones up north are more used to this. The issue was poor planning and lack of sufficient public transportation. Also people did not take the storm seriously. I lived in Atlanta a long time so not surprised.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-01-2014, 04:19 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,776 posts, read 103,967,405 times
Reputation: 33535
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
With ICE the walkability score of any city turns to zero. Without snow plows and salt roads freeze up and buses don't move. Have you ever lived in a city that deals with snow and ICE regularly? No amount of grid is going to help when cars, truck, and buses are jack knifed on major streets if you don't have salt trucks.
Agreed. I once got a concussion walking on the ice. Believe me, I was afraid to even go ice skating for a while after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
You're completely missing the point:

Let's look at what could have been done in a counter factual universe where Atlant instead of being auto dependent and spread all over an enormous area was a compact and connected city with a tight urban grid and a good transit system.

1. Most residents would be walking or riding transit with no to minimal impact.
2. There would have been far fewer roads to maintain, resources available could be concentrated.
3. Because of the network, if one road was taken off line due to accident or whatever there would have been hundreds of other options, therefor no paralys, only annoying delays.

Two inches of snow is barely worth noting in most areas of the country..not even enough to break out the toboggans. In a compact, connected and walkable city with no sand... It would have been a non event. In Atlanta, it paralyzed the system.

Sprawl did this, we did this.
You keep talking about walking, and people keep telling you there is no walking on ice. See my response above. And "minimal to no impact"? I don't know where you live. I live in metro Denver, a city famous for its snow. It's a mess when it snows here, even a few inches.

If people had been walking in a compact, connected and walkable city with no sand. . . the ERs would have been full of concussion patients.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 04:21 PM
 
9,572 posts, read 15,166,025 times
Reputation: 9819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
1. Most residents would be walking or riding transit with no to minimal impact.
Wrong. Transit would have been impacted.

Quote:
2. There would have been far fewer roads to maintain, resources available could be concentrated.
Fewer roads, more transit.

Quote:
3. Because of the network, if one road was taken off line due to accident or whatever there would have been hundreds of other options, therefor no paralys, only annoying delays.
Sufficient redundancy to handle one major shutdown can be built via roads, transit, or both. But it rarely is, because it costs so much. For one of the few working examples, see I-95 and I-495 through Delaware; if either one is shut down, the other can handle the load with only moderate degradation.

A counterfactual where most people walk everywhere simply isn't going to happen. The 1800s are long gone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 04:22 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,995 posts, read 42,801,289 times
Reputation: 14825
Was this a big ice storm or just a snowstorm?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,302 posts, read 16,446,116 times
Reputation: 12889
Ice.

Anyway, Atlanta actually didn't do that bad. But, hey, you can find someone on the Internet to claim it was XYZ.

Atlanta’s snow fiasco: The real problem in the South isn’t weather, it’s history.

Just let stupid argue for itself, however:
Quote:
The results are not just suburban sprawl, which Atlanta is hardly the only city to suffer from; another result is widening income inequality—which Atlanta leads the nation in, by the way—since sprawl creates a dearth of close-in affordable housing and forces poor people spend a larger portion of their income on transportation. Today, Atlanta’s affluent northern suburbs, which have no mass transit, stretch practically to Chattanooga—and south Fulton County, which does, is a sea of mostly poor, mostly black neighborhoods.
Forgetting the fact that it's nearly incomprehensible, how can there be "a dearth of affordable close-in housing that forces people(sic) spend a large portion of their income on transportation" AND simultaneously "--(sic) and south Fulton County, which does, is a sea of mostly poor, mostly black neighborhoods"? I thought there was "a dearth of close-in affordable housing"?

Atlanta proper is pretty much entirely in south Fulton County.

Last edited by Malloric; 02-01-2014 at 04:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 05:36 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 13,028,831 times
Reputation: 5430
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Was this a big ice storm or just a snowstorm?
Two things indicate ice. A number of the videos show the classical slapstick fall...that is ice. And the traffic blockages showed jack knifed trucks. That happens on ice. They go pretty good through a few inches of snow.

I have been in DC through a couple of minor snow storms. The driving is absolutely atrocious...but of the fender bender kind...not road closing. Everyone tends to go very slowly...they have just not learned to steer in this ****.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 05:49 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,776 posts, read 103,967,405 times
Reputation: 33535
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Wrong. Transit would have been impacted.
<snip>
A counterfactual where most people walk everywhere simply isn't going to happen. The 1800s are long gone.
Exactly! Bus transit would have especially been impacted (and probably was).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,227 posts, read 30,188,561 times
Reputation: 26775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Don't know who "they" are but maybe "they" were just being thoughtful. Maybe "they" also thought you'd like to see more than just the 3/4 mile from your hotel to the client. I'm not sure what you mean by "for those of us with no experience". Do you mean no experience with Denver, or no experience driving in the snow?
Snow drivers.

I went to Stapleton (the purpose of the trip) and it was only 2 days. Not a lot of time for fun. For me seeing stuff on foot is way more exciting. I wasn't planing to partake in Colorado. I am most interested in neighborhood development anyway. I got to see what I want. I also have no issues with hopping in transit in unfamiliar cities, it is my preference actually. Walking meant I actually saw more than I would have driving. I did make a detour to a warehousy/up and coming section of downtown too, I saw the "black area" (which I had no idea existed) and the baseball stadium. And of course Stapleton. I saw quite a bit for a 2 day trip.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,227 posts, read 30,188,561 times
Reputation: 26775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Ice.

Anyway, Atlanta actually didn't do that bad. But, hey, you can find someone on the Internet to claim it was XYZ.

Atlanta&rsquo;s snow fiasco: The real problem in the South isn&rsquo;t weather, it&rsquo;s history.

Just let stupid argue for itself, however:


Forgetting the fact that it's nearly incomprehensible, how can there be "a dearth of affordable close-in housing that forces people(sic) spend a large portion of their income on transportation" AND simultaneously "--(sic) and south Fulton County, which does, is a sea of mostly poor, mostly black neighborhoods"? I thought there was "a dearth of close-in affordable housing"?

Atlanta proper is pretty much entirely in south Fulton County.
He jobs are in the northern part of he metro area...where there is no transit. Fulton is the southern part, the northern areas are really hellbent in not having transit. In ATL the derogatory name for the transit system is "moving Africans rapid,y through Atlanta". And that is exactly what the northern suburbs want to prevent from happening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2014, 06:57 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,776 posts, read 103,967,405 times
Reputation: 33535
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Snow drivers.

I went to Stapleton (the purpose of the trip) and it was only 2 days. Not a lot of time for fun. For me seeing stuff on foot is way more exciting. I wasn't planing to partake in Colorado. I am most interested in neighborhood development anyway. I got to see what I want. I also have no issues with hopping in transit in unfamiliar cities, it is my preference actually. Walking meant I actually saw more than I would have driving. I did make a detour to a warehousy/up and coming section of downtown too, I saw the "black area" (which I had no idea existed) and the baseball stadium. And of course Stapleton. I saw quite a bit for a 2 day trip.
Good for you! I hope you enjoyed it! Yes, there is a black part of town, and yes, many outsiders think Colorado is all white-bread but it's not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top