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Old 02-12-2014, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,726,427 times
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I thought I should share this app with you all:

'I'm Stuck' App Developed to Spur Transportation Improvements
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You haven't said where the city line is (but I think you know it anyway). You're right, some of that housing in west Denver was built in the 50s, but east of ~ Lowell Blvd. there are a lot of 1920s style bungalows. Of course, there's not much in between 20s houses and 50s. But does the "form" look much different as you go west? It's pretty much strict grid until Kipling St. which is well into the burbs.
No, the form doesn't look much different as you go west. Even past Kipling the residential are still somewhat interconnected even if ungridded (Long Island has a lot of that pattern), and the bigger roads still have a grid. I could notice the difference east of Lowell-ish or so with the older housing, which even if was lower build quality does look more attractive to me. Houses do look a bit closer together there, and less so further out.

But Denver has a pattern not similar to any city I'm familiar with (Portland and Seattle may be close, but I didn't spend much time outside their centers). This post I made on the urban density forum might be a good explanation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Looking at the maps, and memph's numbers, one thing that stands out is that the rust belt cities were definitely denser than the newer western cities even though the difference is mostly gone today. Looking at 1950 American cities perhaps one could do a three-way grouping:

1) Old centralized cities: the four old coastal northeastern (Boston, NYC, Philly and Baltimore) cities and Chicago stand out in having very dense cores and the highest weighted densities. Also havethe highest density gradient index (ratio between weighted and standard density), around 3. San Francisco and DC have a bit smaller density gradient, and a bit less of a dense core but otherwise fit in with these better than the other two groups

2) Mid-sized Northern cities. Mostly rust belt cities, today: Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis. Milwaukee and Kansas City fit in, and probably Providence and maybe some other upstate and New England cities. More of the housing stock is just houses (perhaps sometimes two-family) packed together. Lower weighted density and gradient. I think for many the uninhabited region by downtown is larger, though Chicago is similar.

3) Western and Southern cities and the smallest northern cities. Weighted densities under 10k/sq mile. Low density gradient, under 2. Los Angeles falls under this category, since though larger, has more high density areas. Minneapolis and Indianapolis fall under this category, despite being in the Midwest.

Some of the higher densities of group (2) may have been from the fact the highest density districts were probably the poorest ones, for the poorer working-class residents.

It's hard to completely trust the numbers, as some of the suburbs were missed for these cities. The question brought up over and over again on the forum was 1950 (roughly) a break in development patterns for American cities. Obviously, there is a transition, but it could still be at the center of a rather fast transition. For the cities in group (3), there wasn't much of a break, except for the sprawliest new development, there wasn't a huge difference in density (there would be in the south since their suburbs are very low density). Blocks of detached homes on lots of say, 6000 sq feet wouldn't be much new. At the other extreme, for NYC those would be drastically lower density than typical existing housing stock. I'd guess for most other cities in group (1) such homes would still be well below the average existing densities and a bit less so for (2).

By looking at the maps, you can see that the outer edges of the cities were already lower in density already, so recent neighborhoods built from 1920-1950 were on their way for what would come later. I get the impression of the largest cities, Boston and Philly were starting to build lower density suburban neighborhoods than San Francisco, but it's hard to tell.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:09 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Of course cities were going to expand in size, but your point about the flaw is what went wrong for the US. Had we focused on suburban development like town with dense centers surrounding an even more dense city, it would have been much easier running effective rail transportation to feed to those suburban centers.
One example I found of a city planned around rail is Copenhagen. In 1947, the region made a "Finger Plan" to guide development, with new suburbs radiating out from the city like fingers, and each finger centered around a rail line ( a bit of a hybrid between commuter and rapid transit, mainline rail but higher frequencies a bit similar in scale to BART but with better city service). In between the fingers is ample green space.

However, the area by the stations aren't all that dense:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Copen...,90.73,,0,3.56

though the tall shrubs and trees give the impression of lower density than there actually might be. But it doesn't seem like much shop/office concentration right by the rail stations. The pedestrian-oriented commercial district is a bit of a walk away from the station:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Copen...23.18,,0,-7.95

Almost 15 minutes away. Over rail lines are similar. At least they're not in pedestrian unfriendly areas, but the mismatch is a bit of a puzzle. Maybe not the best example?
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,038 posts, read 102,742,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
You really want a definition? I thought we were done.
Yes,I'd like a real definition. I've never seen "evasive" used that way before. That's not what evasive means by along shot.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes,I'd like a real definition. I've never seen "evasive" used that way before. That's not what evasive means by along shot.
Sorry, I just realized I was using bad grammar, I meant non-invasive, not evasive.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:17 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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skimming some views of Copenhagen, I noticed an unusual method of traffic calming on residential streets. Plant trees on side of the road combined with a speed bump:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...334.94,,0,6.04

I think all these houses on the street are single family, but some look rather big, so unsure. I like the way shrubs and small trees line the streets instead of just lawn. Looks less manicured and monotonously wide open.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
skimming some views of Copenhagen, I noticed an unusual method of traffic calming on residential streets. Plant trees on side of the road combined with a speed bump:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...334.94,,0,6.04

I think all these houses on the street are single family, but some look rather big, so unsure. I like the way shrubs and small trees line the streets instead of just lawn. Looks less manicured and monotonously wide open.
Those are some seriously adorable houses, I just love Copenhagen. I had a friend who spend a semester abroad there for architecture and loved every minute of living there and how the city is structured. Definitely a city that we could learn a lot from.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:38 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Those are some seriously adorable houses, I just love Copenhagen. I had a friend who spend a semester abroad there for architecture and loved every minute of living there and how the city is structured. Definitely a city that we could learn a lot from.
Have you visited there? They're nice looking houses for sure, though the all brick of most of them is a bit plain. Inside a courtyard apartment building:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...2,,0,8.77&z=15

Not going win any looks awards, but it's functional. Some nice looking row house blocks:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,0,-13.61&z=15

Rather cute pedestrianized downtown street:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...1,,0,4.48&z=15

reminds me of a more attractive version of Boston's North End. Weird looking row houses, a bit stark:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...3,,0,0.82&z=15

random graffiti

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...5,,0,-8.5&z=15

lots of bicycles line the city streets:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,,0,-0.46&z=15

train tracks (multiple lines running together) taking up lots of space:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,,0,-7.86&z=15

Some sorta plaza, a lot of non-car public space:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,,0,-7.86&z=15

random commercial street:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,0,-14.16&z=15

density drops further out, still in the city limits

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...,,0,-7.68&z=15

Last edited by nei; 02-13-2014 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:47 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Reputation: 33084
^^That's about what the apt. complexes in Germany looked like too.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,580,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Have you visited there? They're nice looking houses for sure, though the all brick of most of them is a bit plain. Inside a courtyard apartment building:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=compe...2,,0,8.77&z=15

Not going win any looks awards, but it's functional.
I haven't been there yet, it is definitely on my short list of places I must visit.
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