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Old 08-12-2016, 07:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
Actually No, everyone does not break the rules and what's truly absurd is being an apologist for those that do.

Cyclists lobby hard for bike lanes and preach mantras like "Share the Road", but all too often act as if the rules of the road are only a suggestion. I personally want more bike lanes everywhere, but we lose credibility as a group when responsible cyclists turn a blind eye to guys riding in the middle of an auto lane one minute, and up on the sidewalk the next.
I agree with both your thoughts. No one should apologize for rule breaking whether done by cyclists, motorists or pedestrians. We all should follow the rules regards less of our mode of transportation.

And I want more bike lanes too. I think they're good thing for a community. But, the cyclists in my area are really doing support for that effort no favors when they flagrantly ignore the rules of the road.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
Ah. There are bad apples, of course, that are going to be egregiously problematic.

But, I think the point still stands that it's a bit unfair to complain if cyclists are riding side-by-side without also acknowledging the comparative amounts of space we provide to cars vs. bikes. I ride and it's annoying having to pass another cyclist in traffic because a bike lane is only large enough for one bike. And that's even assuming there is a lane at all, and I'm not already fighting for space between parked cars and traffic.


Everyone breaks the rules. For anyone to single out cyclists as if it is a unique group, as if its rule breaking is especially bad or frequent, is absurd.
You mean like it's annoying to not be able to pass a blockade of bikes for MILES when there's only one car lane in your direction and they're in the middle of it?

And no, not everyone breaks the rules. I don't and many other don't either. I don't think it's right to apologize for a cyclist based on things being "a bit unfair". Rules are rules and anyone who doesn't follow them is just contributing to the animosity between cyclists and motorists. I think that's a bad idea.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:01 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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^GoodRedRoad

You're conflating "cyclists" as one group with the same interests in riding patterns. Club roadies ride differently than casual cyclists or those riding for transportation.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:01 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
I figured, given the thread, we were talking about fully occupied (congested) infrastructure.
Oh whoops, yea that would make sense given the thread title.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
^GoodRedRoad

You're conflating "cyclists" as one group with the same interests in riding patterns. Club roadies ride differently than casual cyclists or those riding for transportation.
I'm not conflating anything, I'm simply not making excuses for one group of bikers over another.
The road rules apply to everyone and club cyclists aren't special. I know that group riding is fun, but ultimately we need to stay in our lanes or ride somewhere that's more appropriate.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:53 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
I'm not conflating anything, I'm simply not making excuses for one group of bikers over another.
Yes, you are. You're describing "cyclists" as if they're one group with interests and habits in common.

Quote:
The road rules apply to everyone and club cyclists aren't special. I know that group riding is fun, but ultimately we need to stay in our lanes or ride somewhere that's more appropriate.
For New York State, riding two next to each other is legal

They may ride two abreast on roadways, but they must ride single file when being overtaken by other vehicles. Bicyclists may not travel more than two abreast on a shoulder, bicycle lane or shared-use pathway intended for bicycle use even if there is sufficient space. However, they must be in single files when passing vehicles, pedestrians or other bicyclists

https://www.dot.ny.gov/display/programs/bicycle/faq
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
Actually No, everyone does not break the rules and what's truly absurd is being an apologist for those that do.
You'd have a hard time finding someone who hadn't sped, failed to fully stop at a stop sign, crept across a limit line, blasted through a yellow, failed to yield to pedestrians, failed to give 3' to cyclists, or broken some law at some time. Just because it's not noticed or caught doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:53 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
You'd have a hard time finding someone who hadn't sped, failed to fully stop at a stop sign, crept across a limit line, blasted through a yellow, failed to yield to pedestrians, failed to give 3' to cyclists, or broken some law at some time. Just because it's not noticed or caught doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
True! OTOH, there's blatant rule-breaking and there's what you described above, some of which is inadvertent.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
You mean like it's annoying to not be able to pass a blockade of bikes for MILES when there's only one car lane in your direction and they're in the middle of it?
Ignoring how hyperbolic that hypothetical is, no, I mean like how, when I'm riding legally and respectfully of the situation, I have to move in to a 12' or 14' traffic lane because the 3' bike lane, assuming it exists at all, isn't wide enough for me to pass another rider.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
For New York State, riding two next to each other is legal

They may ride two abreast on roadways, but they must ride single file when being overtaken by other vehicles. Bicyclists may not travel more than two abreast on a shoulder, bicycle lane or shared-use pathway intended for bicycle use even if there is sufficient space. However, they must be in single files when passing vehicles, pedestrians or other bicyclists

https://www.dot.ny.gov/display/programs/bicycle/faq
Having read the particular section, the CA vehicle code has nothing specific to say, one way or the other, about riding side-by-side.

But, if riders cannot maintain the same speed as vehicle traffic travelling in that direction at that time, they need to stay as close to the right-most curb or edge as is reasonable/safe which, in turn, means no side-by-side riding except to pass or prepare to make a left turn.
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