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Old 02-10-2014, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^What the @*!%^^ is so great about rail? Who wants all these tracks and the noise that comes with trains all over the place? In reality, something often in short supply here on CD, most of the 50s suburbs (of Denver anyway) are simply an extension of residential neighborhoods in the city. Take a look at this map. Follow say, 26th Avenue west. Tell me where the city line is. Tell me when it's obvious you're in the burbs.
https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...&ved=0CLcBEPwS
What's so great about highways cutting through the landscape, dividing neighborhoods?
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
How is that any worse than busy roads and the rumble of traffic? Train noise is less constant than highway noise.



That's Denver (and much of the west and perhaps parts of the midwest). Here, the difference between 50s era development and previous development is rather large, whether in "the city" or not. The older development was often much denser (see some of the maps I posted)

From that view, it looks some of Denver by 26th avenue was also built in the 50s, so you can't see much difference with in development age crossing the city limits.
You haven't said where the city line is (but I think you know it anyway). You're right, some of that housing in west Denver was built in the 50s, but east of ~ Lowell Blvd. there are a lot of 1920s style bungalows. Of course, there's not much in between 20s houses and 50s. But does the "form" look much different as you go west? It's pretty much strict grid until Kipling St. which is well into the burbs.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You haven't said where the city line is (but I think you know it anyway). You're right, some of that housing in west Denver was built in the 50s, but east of ~ Lowell Blvd. there are a lot of 1920s style bungalows. Of course, there's not much in between 20s houses and 50s. But does the "form" look much different as you go west? It's pretty much strict grid until Kipling St. which is well into the burbs.
Personally I prefer the midwest and west coast grid over the old mess of streets that you find on the east coast.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Personally I prefer the midwest and west coast grid over the old mess of streets that you find on the east coast.
? NY has the most regular grid in the country by a long shot.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:28 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,718,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
Not always. A relative gave me their old car. Insurance is pretty cheap for an older vehicle and my son is my mechanic. Win ... and win.
Well golly - I guess that makes it a fair analysis for everyone else.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:31 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
? NY has the most regular grid in the country by a long shot.
not really, plenty of streets entering at angles. There's places where the streets go east-west and a couple miles away the streets are north-south routes. Multiple grid systems that collide, etc. There's an intersection where 4th and 14th street that meet at an angle. Have you been in NYC?
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
You have this exactly wrong. Density leads of efficiencies. Infrastructure costs are generally by the linear foot. When people live closer together you get two things: far more returned in taxes/unit of land and far fewer expenditures in total infrastructure.

I'm not stuck in traffic, ever. I live in close proximity to where 90% of my daily life needs can be handled on foot or bike. The remaining 10% is easily time shifted to non-traffic hours.

Do I have a 1/4 acre lot? I do not. I made the choice to live in a row home, close in to everything that I want or need.

Choice.
Yes, you are correct that 'Designed' density from conception leads to efficiencies in infrastructure costs, if capacity is contained within a defined geography . The problem is virtually all USA metro areas historically and developmentally have not been designed that way. Rather, they tend toward constant upgrade and expansion as new technology (elevators, pumping stations etc...) enabled greater density as well as greater outgrowth to surrounding areas (automobiles, roadways) without concern for the economies of scale you mention. This has been better addressed in areas where development constraints exist (greenbelt restrictions, a la UK) and overarching density guideline plans are followed.

This is why I mentioned the more apt discussion (to your query about traffic) being around how transportation planning is conducted. Allocation of public funding toward priorities and what constraints, if any, can be made to insure the optimal access of transportation options available for the expected traffic volumes in a cohesive plan of development.

The Amish example is a thought exercise for you to illustrate a basic transportation reality: Even those who eschew conventional transportation will use those which make the most sense for their situation.

Choices are indeed important, and I laud your time shifting. I drive a short distance to a train station and ride public transportation to optimize my time / productivity / cost benefit during conventional peak traffic times (grocery shopping after work). Yours works for you - mine works for me Let's agree to self optimize, shall we?
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
? NY has the most regular grid in the country by a long shot.
I was referring to all of the east coast in general, not any one city in particular. In the case of NYC, much of Manhattan is on a grid except for the oldest potion, which is understandable. Brooklyn is made up of a collection of grids that mash together because each one was built independently. Queens, Bronx, and Staten Island were not built on grids with an exception in parts of Queens and the Bronx. But the city as a whole was not built on a uniformed grid like cities like Denver and Portland.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:14 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,854,178 times
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
You forgot to include iPods
That wasn't God, that was Steve Jobs. To be fair, one often confuses Himself with the other.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,521,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
People can choose to live in areas that aren't auto-dependent. Many people volunteer to live disconnected lives. They can make different choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Of course it's viable - you just have to make lifestyle choices.
And there is no shortage of "holier-than-thou" friends of Big Brother/Sister who would just love to make those choices for everybody else; one person's "connection" is another's subjugation.

I'll pass, thanks!
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