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Old 02-18-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,692,971 times
Reputation: 26671

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Good grief! I am just stating the truth. Until I brought up city schools, many people on this forum acknowledged they'd never thought about schools and really had no interest in looking at the topic. Yet when you look at city forums, the big question is often, "where are the good schools?"

ETA: I will point out that a young teacher who posts here occasionally has expressed similar to me, that the 20 something, mostly male demographic on this forum is simply uninterested in school issues.
i am not sure this is the case. Personally, I have never denied schools are an issue and mention it quite often in my own posts about my region....
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:05 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
i am not sure this is the case. Personally, I have never denied schools are an issue and mention it quite often in my own posts about my region....
You haven't been posting on this forum very long. You could do a search and look at some of the old threads.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,439 posts, read 11,941,006 times
Reputation: 10542
Regarding the price per square foot issue and how to get "family size" accommodations which are affordable, this is indeed an issue in many metros. Fortunately, it hasn't become an issue here in Pittsburgh yet. There are plenty of neighborhoods within city limits which are safe and have modest-to-large size houses suitable for families.

We do know we'll need to make compromises for our next house however. As parents we can't deal with a fixer-upper anymore, and getting houses in good condition at our price range within the 19th century city neighborhoods is getting difficult. My wife also wants more than one bathroom at our next house, which is difficult in many of the neighborhoods we look at. And in some neighborhoods we otherwise like a huge proportion of the houses have already been subdivided into apartments.

Still, we remain committed to city living. My wife is actually more extreme on this than I am - I'm dead set against a suburban-style house, but if I found a cool 19th century brick victorian in an outlying borough, I'd be tempted. At worse, we might have to move to an unfashionable neighborhood which was built up in the 1920s, which has a functional, but non-trendy, business district, along with good bus/bike trail access.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The quality of schools is a major factor in the livelihood of inner city neighborhoods for those looking to raise kids, however as we start to see those 20 somethings that moved into the cities start to set up roots, we see an increase of demand for better quality in schools which often times follows. (This is just a general statement about cities because each city is different on how they handle the issues with education.)
I used specific areas of Washington, DC I'm familiar with to challenge this very assumption. A lot of people say, "Oh, when these neighborhoods gentrify, the 20-somethings will stay and improve the schools and families will flourish." Well, when it comes to DC, we certainly don't see that in the data. Tenleytown, the first neighborhood I mentioned, wasn't that wealthy in the late 80s/early 90s. It was always white, however. In the last 25 years or so, the single people keep moving in, but the number of older children never rises. In Tract 12 specifically, the number of children between the ages of 10 and 17 declined from 173 in 2000 to 116 in 2012.

It could be argued that this new generation of Millennials is exceptional and needs time to populate these neighborhoods with kids. After all, a child born to Millennial parents in 2009 would only be only be 4 or 5, and therefore not yet part of the 10 to 17 age bracket that will undoubtedly continue to expand as Millennials settle down (right). The big problem I see with this theory is that many DC neighborhoods have been gentrified for years (i.e., Woodley Park, Tenleytown, Cleveland Park, Dupont Circle), have solid schools (Janney, Murch, Lafayette, Deal), and yet the number of middle-school age children continues to decline.

If the first 20 years of gentrification do the trick, do you think the next 20 will? What's so different about the white people currently living in these neighborhoods than the white people who lived there in 1995? The trend in DC for at least 25 years has been growth in the the 9 and under population with stagnation or decline in the over 10 population. What basis do we have to believe that that's going to change over the next 10 years?
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,544,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I used specific areas of Washington, DC I'm familiar with to challenge this very assumption. A lot of people say, "Oh, when these neighborhoods gentrify, the 20-somethings will stay and improve the schools and families will flourish." Well, when it comes to DC, we certainly don't see that in the data. Tenleytown, the first neighborhood I mentioned, wasn't that wealthy in the late 80s/early 90s. It was always white, however. In the last 25 years or so, the single people keep moving in, but the number of older children never rises. In Tract 12 specifically, the number of children between the ages of 10 and 17 declined from 173 in 2000 to 116 in 2012.

It could be argued that this new generation of Millennials is exceptional and needs time to populate these neighborhoods with kids. After all, a child born to Millennial parents in 2009 would only be only be 4 or 5, and therefore not yet part of the 10 to 17 age bracket that will undoubtedly continue to expand as Millennials settle down (right). The big problem I see with this theory is that many DC neighborhoods have been gentrified for years (i.e., Woodley Park, Tenleytown, Cleveland Park, Dupont Circle), have solid schools (Janney, Murch, Lafayette, Deal), and yet the number of middle-school age children continues to decline.

If the first 20 years of gentrification do the trick, do you think the next 20 will? What's so different about the white people currently living in these neighborhoods than the white people who lived there in 1995? The trend in DC for at least 25 years has been growth in the the 9 and under population with stagnation or decline in the over 10 population. What basis do we have to believe that that's going to change over the next 10 years?
It really depends on the city, places like New York and DC I would never want to raise a child in but living in Northwest cities are much more appealing to me. But then if you were to take a neighborhoods in Brooklyn that use to be some of the most dangerous parts of the city are now home to tons of kids being raised in the city. It really depends on the city and how attractive the city is for people who live their to decide to raise a family in those more urban neighborhoods.

Also another thing to keep in mind is people that choose to live in the city often times also choose to only have one kid or two at most, therefore those that are wanting to raise a kid in the city are only doing one rather than 2-3 which will also have an effect on the numbers that create more parents and less children.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,439 posts, read 11,941,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
It really depends on the city, places like New York and DC I would never want to raise a child in but living in Northwest cities are much more appealing to me. But then if you were to take a neighborhoods in Brooklyn that use to be some of the most dangerous parts of the city are now home to tons of kids being raised in the city. It really depends on the city and how attractive the city is for people who live their to decide to raise a family in those more urban neighborhoods.
I've definitely known people who become parents, move out of NYC, but don't move to a suburb, instead leaving the region entirely for a lower-cost metro where they can have a somewhat "urban" experience and raise children without going broke. They particularly seem to move to Seattle and Portland, although I've seen them move other places as well.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,544,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I've definitely known people who become parents, move out of NYC, but don't move to a suburb, instead leaving the region entirely for a lower-cost metro where they can have a somewhat "urban" experience and raise children without going broke. They particularly seem to move to Seattle and Portland, although I've seen them move other places as well.
Portland is definitely a great place to raise a kid and still be able to keep many of those urban experiences one likes in a city like Brooklyn without it costing a fortune.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,336,704 times
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I think a lot of it has to do with COL and schools. As neighborhoods gentrify, they become prohibitively more expensive. If the schools are currently good, the only ones that can seemingly afford it are duel-income homes that have demanding jobs (and less kids) OR those in the minority that have a single income that's very demanding/high-earning; both categories not being the majority of parents in the US. Because of that, most families with kids can't afford those neighborhoods.

For neighborhoods that are trying to improve schools...I've seen some families have one kid in a so-so neighborhood and wait it out to see if the neighborhood improves (and the schools). It rarely seems to happen and they do ok in elementary school, but middle school is usually the problem. Then, they either need to get their kid into a private school (or charter school) or move...or gamble with their kid's education. The problem is again COL and schools fighting each other. By the time the schools improve enough, COL is usually through the roof. This seems to make it out of grasp for a large portion of families.

Not the answer for all scenarios, but that's what I've seen where I've lived.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Came across this article while reading the Post.

Millennials consider leaving Washington as the city becomes more costly - The Washington Post
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:18 PM
 
1,211 posts, read 888,739 times
Reputation: 1107
We are raising 3 kids in an urban neighborhood in Somerville, MA. We are lucky enough to afford a single family home with a small yard. We love everything here - 2 blocks to the T stop, a walk score of 90+, A 15 minute bicycle commute to work (yes year round), one block walk to the elementary school, MANY classmates living within a 10 minute walk, and the general vibrancy and diversity that comes from living in a urban neighborhood. The teens in our neighborhood have a independence and exposure to the world that I would have killed for as a kid. Out oldest is in the public schools and so far doing great. This schools actually outperforms the top suburbs once you control for income, yet it has a 5 on great schools. NEVER pick a school based on MCAS or greatschools.com - do your homework, talk to parents, visit the schools during class hours.

The main reason people leave:
- Space and cost of living - space is expensive here, a yard is a premium.
- Under-estimation of how much kids benefit from living in a city
- Over-estimation of how much kids will benefit from a huge house and yard on an isolated lot
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