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Old 06-22-2014, 01:49 PM
 
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If anything, it seems like there needs to be more magnet schools at the upper levels of public urban school districts, as it can bring together a range of students and would teach something that interest those students. I don't look at magnets and charter schools as the same thing, because at with magnets, you are still a part of the school system and generally, it allows for educational options within that school district. Even Buffalo, a city/area that is viewed as one of nation's most segregated, has integrated magnet schools with a range of results, including the well regarded City Honors School.

Charters tend to be placed or targeted towards urban minority students, eventhough many are diverse as well.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:38 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm somewhat skeptical that the other schools would have improved if it weren't for magnets (not commenting on charters, for the moment). I think it's more likely they would have stayed the same. Evidence would be helpful. The two ways I could see this happen are:

1) Magnets take away scarce funding or some other type of resource
2) Not having as many high achieving kids drags down normal schools

For (1) we'd need proof that magnets get better funded (or take resources away in some other way). For (2), maybe but BajanYankee said this well:

Education and urban (dis)investment

though more in comparison to terrible schools. The demographics of magnets I'm familiar with aren't particularly privileged. And many are not built specifically towards "gentrifiers". Many were created a long time ago. The anti-magnet view reads to me as ideology over reality, because they violate an egalitatian ideal, a better education for some of the more promising students must be sacrificed.
Re: 1) Is a problem if kids leave their neighborhood schools for the magnets, leaving a lot of unfilled seats at the neighborhood school. Some costs are fixed, such as utilities, maintenance, etc whether the school is full or not. Also, say the average class size at a particular school is 25 and this school has 4 rounds of classes per subject. (Just pulling numbers out of the air for the example.) Say kids leave for a magnet, but not enough leave to eliminate one round. So you're still offering 4 rounds, needing to pay 4 teachers, but the total funding for those teachers is decreased.

2) is a concern of some educators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
I like Denver. It's a wonderful city.

But Denver is not Baltimore. Or Philadelphia. Or Washington. Or St. Louis. Or Cleveland. Or New York. Denver does not have the extent of the social problems these cities face. I've been to Denver a number of times. I've had tours of the "ghetto" parts of Denver and all I did was to laugh. Denver, in comparison to many other American cities, is a simple place. You're applying your localized experiences of Denver and the surrounding environs with other, more complicated and more dysfunctional cities with very segregated divides between urban and suburban districts and it is not a fair comparison to make. Nor is it fair to compare a highly homogenized, highly educated university town like Boulder to a diverse, decaying city like, say, Detroit. You can point out the children of Nobel prize winners in Boulder who send their children to highly regarded Boulder schools, I can point out the children of Nobel prize winners or Johns Hopkins medical school professors in Baltimore who send their children to private schools because they have no faith in the Baltimore public schools.

Also, coming from Colorado you may not be aware of the very strong tradition of elite private schools in parts of America, particularly the East Coast. Metro Denver and metro Baltimore have similar populations, and while Denver has two elite private schools - Kent Denver and Colorado Academy, Baltimore has at least a dozen, and we're not even including the Catholic schools.

Before you criticize and attack charter and magnet programs you really need to understand why they are so much in demand in many urban areas and not just among middle class families but among poor families desperate to get their children out of the dysfunctional local public schools. Judging from the tone of your posts I'd say you're clueless as to how bad and dysfunctional urban public schools and even entire school districts can be in other parts of the United States.
I am not from Colorado originally; I am from the Pittsburgh area and I got all my own schooling there, including college. I was a visiting nurse in Pittsburgh as a very young nurse; I've seen the ghettos. I've also been a VN in Champaign, IL which has a surprisingly large ghetto for a city its size. I have friends who went to the Chicago public schools.

Regarding Denver/Colorado, please spare me the "it's not fair" talk. Here you are accusing me of "attacking", yet you are mocking Denver and calling ME "clueless". I doubt you saw the whole elephant in Denver, so to speak.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:22 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
If anything, it seems like there needs to be more magnet schools at the upper levels of public urban school districts, as it can bring together a range of students and would teach something that interest those students. I don't look at magnets and charter schools as the same thing, because at with magnets, you are still a part of the school system and generally, it allows for educational options within that school district. Even Buffalo, a city/area that is viewed as one of nation's most segregated, has integrated magnet schools with a range of results, including the well regarded City Honors School.

Charters tend to be placed or targeted towards urban minority students, eventhough many are diverse as well.
Charter schools are part of the public school system, but run by an independent board. I'm glad the magnet schools are working in Buffalo.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Charter schools are part of the public school system, but run by an independent board. I'm glad the magnet schools are working in Buffalo.
I don't know in terms of all charters, as a successful charter school here in Syracuse was founded by Turkish immigrants within the city, but isn't recognized as a city school district school. So, that may depend on the location. Charter Flight | Syracuse New Times
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Old 06-22-2014, 04:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I don't know in terms of all charters, as a successful charter school here in Syracuse was founded by Turkish immigrants within the city, but isn't recognized as a city school district school. So, that may depend on the location. Charter Flight | Syracuse New Times
ALL charters are public schools. From your link: **Charter schools receive public tax dollars. The Syracuse City School District, the home district for most SAS students, reimburses the charter school $11,930 per student, the same amount the district receives from the state in foundation aid. According to Suzanne Slack, the districtís chief financial officer, the Syracuse school district pays the charter an additional $5,568 for each special-education student. Twenty special-education students are among the 634 Syracuse students in the charter school. The dis trict also provides transportation and other supports for eligible students.**

Each state is probably set up a little differently. Here in Colorado, transportation is on your own. I believe DPS provides some limited transportation to its magnets.
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Old 06-22-2014, 04:31 PM
 
56,617 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
ALL charters are public schools. From your link: **Charter schools receive public tax dollars. The Syracuse City School District, the home district for most SAS students, reimburses the charter school $11,930 per student, the same amount the district receives from the state in foundation aid. According to Suzanne Slack, the districtís chief financial officer, the Syracuse school district pays the charter an additional $5,568 for each special-education student. Twenty special-education students are among the 634 Syracuse students in the charter school. The dis trict also provides transportation and other supports for eligible students.**

Each state is probably set up a little differently. Here in Colorado, transportation is on your own. I believe DPS provides some limited transportation to its magnets.
Keep in mind that not all of the students in that school is a Syracuse resident, as some live in other school districts.

In Minnesota and I believe Wisconsin, they have open enrollment where the tax money follows the student and the student can attend a school outside of their home district as long as there is space and the student can find a way to that school. So, there are other ways where school based tax money may not stay within an urban school district.
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Old 06-22-2014, 04:35 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Keep in mind that not all of the students in that school is a Syracuse resident, as some live in other school districts.

In Minnesota and I believe Wisconsin, they have open enrollment where the tax money follows the student and the student can attend a school outside of their home district as long as there is space and the student can find a way to that school. So, there are other ways where school based tax money may not stay within an urban school district.
Colorado has statewide open enrollment as well and the state portion of the per-pupil funding follows the student. But if tax money is paying for the education, it's PUBLIC education. In some states, the school district issues the charter for a charter school, and in others the state may also issue charters. But it's still public money, and public education.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Here is a great article about magnet schools, even if it is from Wikipedia.
Magnet school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Magnets started as a form of racial desegregation in the 1960s. Many people on this forum weren't even alive then, let alone old enough to be aware of educational issues. Disclaimer: I was 20 in 1969. Magnets offered special choices at schools that kids (and more to the point) parents wouldn't otherwise send their kids to.
Many magnets predate the 60s. For example,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell_...(San_Francisco)

The Bronx High School of Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The founding of these had little to do with racial desgregation.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
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I know that there are plenty of families who live in the Fan District here in Richmond, in fact, we have a street called West Avenue, which is called "Stork Avenue".
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:48 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Many magnets predate the 60s. For example,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell_...(San_Francisco)

The Bronx High School of Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The founding of these had little to do with racial desgregation.
True, and there have long been Vo-Tech schools as well. However, magnets began being used as a tool for desegregation in the 1960s, and have proliferated way beyond a few schools.
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