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Old 06-24-2014, 03:50 PM
 
56,609 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Not in the numbers the fluff articles would have you believe. Most retirees "retire in place". Most stay in the homes they've bought and paid for.



Are you familiar with some of the utopian societies of the 19th century that didn't believe in marriage (and therefore childbearing/raising)? They though their numbers would increase by recruitment. The Harmonites of Pennsylvania, in my home county, are one example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony_Society; ditto, the Shakers of upstate NY and New England, Shakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you don't have kids, your society will wither. I have long been concerned that this particular form of gentrification could lead to what some have posted on here-business areas full of bars, other nightlife and businesses catering to young hipsters to the exclusion of much of anything else.

Frankly, I find eschaton's experience as an urban father more valid than the statements of people without kids.
I'm sure that is the case, but I think that people forget about the empty nesters that actually don't mind moving back into the city or that downsize into urban housing. Here is an example: The Lofts at Franklin Square | Syracuse New Times

Here are some other examples as well: Downtown Small Town | Syracuse New Times

SKINNY, BUT FULL OF HISTORY | Syracuse New Times

Living Space: 311 Montgomery St. | Syracuse New Times
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Old 06-30-2014, 05:35 PM
 
479 posts, read 678,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I think it is mostly a supply problem.

I think the "hyper dense" environments tend to only build small units. Or forget to build schools.

The SFH advocates will always say "but kids need yards!"

Kids need play space, that's for sure. And designing a kid friendly neighborhood requires incorporating kid friendly design. Many denser neighborhoods do not bother adding that stuff. Parks, rec centers, soccer fields and the like..
Another problem is these areas aren't regulated in cities. My sister lives in a city where the parks are used mostly for drug dealers. If a group of moms go to area with their kids and a creepy person comes up, no one is there to go any thing. The police don't come fast enough if at all.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,168 posts, read 29,665,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Considering I have two kids, ages 27 and 30, and they have spouses/SOs, and most of my friends have kids of similar ages, I think I have a pretty good handle on "what the current generation wants". My older daughter and her DH bought a house in the burbs that is equidistant from both of their jobs. There isn't much of any other location, and certainly no "urban" location, that would enable them to do so. Like many burbs, there is a strip mall within walking distance of their house with a Kohl's, a Chili's, a grocery store (Albertson's, don't know if you have those in Cali) and a bunch of other stuff. They can also walk to the Light Rail, I think. I know they've used it to go to Denver. The other one is currently living in-town St. Paul MN and discovered the joys of no on-street parking, esp. during the winter when they had to move the cars constantly for plowing, plus she got a ticket for abandoned car b/c it hadn't been moved in several days one time. (This will change as she finally found a job!) They have lived in the burbs before, and I think are likely to live there again.
In my circle it is 50/50 for walkability. Almost everyone wants to be able to walk to nice stuff. I think the Bay Area is a little more anti-chain than other parts of the US, so walking distance to Chili's wouldn't be very exciting. I think everyone I know wants Thai, Mexican and Japanese in walking distance. :P

*we need to differentiate urban from walkable, because they aren't really the same thing. You can have a walkable suburban area

Most of us grew up in the "burbs." Traffic in the Bay Area can be pretty sucky, so it is nice to have stuff really close by. Oakland is getting popular with certain types of families as well. They want a yard and walkability, and their are loads of Oakland areas that fit the bill.

As I've mentioned, I know loads and loads of car-free people too. The biggest gap in walkable/not-walkable is related to the friends who have to live in Silicon Valley. Unfortunately, the walkable options are both extremely limited and extremely pricey. I'd say 25% of people I know have found a modicum of walkability in that area, but it takes lots and lots of work to find something moderately affordable. Housing affordability is a huge issue, as I have well paid friends that struggle finding suitable housing, with very short lists of requirements.

Quote:
Why do you guys go to the Farmer's Market if you like take-out? Just askin'.
Takeout is for the lazy days!

I cook too. My friend who hates to cook gets a lot of takeout. My friends who love to cook gets it less often, but like to have options for busy days. Most of my friends both like to cook and eat out. It sounds incompatible, but the eating out inspires the eating in. Since I live alone, I don't want to have the same leftovers all the time, so I eat out some lunches for that reason.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,168 posts, read 29,665,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smommaof3 View Post
Another problem is these areas aren't regulated in cities. My sister lives in a city where the parks are used mostly for drug dealers. If a group of moms go to area with their kids and a creepy person comes up, no one is there to go any thing. The police don't come fast enough if at all.
That's probably a larger structural issue, but the city definitely has to prioritize solving it. In my city, let's say "drug dealers" aren't evenly distributed across all the parks. The police aren't coming, that's for sure. But most parks are family friendly on the whole. There are some hot spots here and there. In lots of cases parks have been significantly cleaner up in recent years. My city also built a huge rec center/park in the poorest part of town that is doing really well.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:54 PM
 
Location: South Hills
632 posts, read 693,904 times
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The major thing that is going to keep families from remaining in the cities is the very poor quality of urban
school systems. Here in Pittsburgh we are seeing a renaissance of young people moving in and revitalizing
older urban neighborhoods. But you can be sure that once they start having children they will be gone, due
to the shockingly awful performance of the city school system (very low graduation rates, poor scores on standardized tests, etc.)

Until or unless that can be fixed, no way to keep them here.
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Old 07-01-2014, 02:50 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,047,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye Burgher View Post
The major thing that is going to keep families from remaining in the cities is the very poor quality of urban
school systems. Here in Pittsburgh we are seeing a renaissance of young people moving in and revitalizing
older urban neighborhoods. But you can be sure that once they start having children they will be gone, due
to the shockingly awful performance of the city school system (very low graduation rates, poor scores on standardized tests, etc.)

Until or unless that can be fixed, no way to keep them here.
The gentrification of downtown cores could help that situation in the long run by augmenting the tax base... all the singles, double-income-no-kids couples, and retirees living in condos pay property tax. As gentrification takes over, poorer renters are driven out of the city core to make room for development. So depending upon how gentrified the central area has become for a particular city, schools in the city core should reap some benefit. Schools in the suburbs that are relatively poor will suffer.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:14 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye Burgher View Post
The major thing that is going to keep families from remaining in the cities is the very poor quality of urban
school systems. Here in Pittsburgh we are seeing a renaissance of young people moving in and revitalizing
older urban neighborhoods. But you can be sure that once they start having children they will be gone, due
to the shockingly awful performance of the city school system (very low graduation rates, poor scores on standardized tests, etc.)

Until or unless that can be fixed, no way to keep them here.
Some of us keep saying that; it's sometimes like talking to a wall.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:46 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,047,262 times
Reputation: 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Some of us keep saying that; it's sometimes like talking to a wall.
Maybe the U.S. is the global exception, then. Cities in other countries can make it work. Heck, Manhattan makes it work... I guess there's something unique in American culture that makes people there very resistant to urban life.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:31 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,827,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
Maybe the U.S. is the global exception, then. Cities in other countries can make it work. Heck, Manhattan makes it work... I guess there's something unique in American culture that makes people there very resistant to urban life.
Manhattan doesn't really make it work. People living there with kids are generally either very poor or very rich. In Manhattan it's not just the schools (though they are an issue), it's space. Larger apartments are very expensive.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,959,650 times
Reputation: 14805
I know urban schools mostly have big issues and that they greatly discourage families from staying in the city. It's a rather depressing situation but I don't know what else I could say on it. Instead of just complaining no one wants to talk about schools, perhaps starting a conversation on urban schools could be insightful. Where have urban schools succeeded? When did they stop working well? I've made a few posts, it didn't attract much interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
Maybe the U.S. is the global exception, then. Cities in other countries can make it work. Heck, Manhattan makes it work... I guess there's something unique in American culture that makes people there very resistant to urban life.
Or, what American urban schools so bad while other countries manage? Sometimes bad city schools are treated as if they're universal.
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