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Old 07-01-2014, 08:49 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,048,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I have made many suggestions about schools. I have suggested people on this forum get involved with their local schools as volunteers. I have suggested that city planning agencies have reps from the schools. You can search through my posts and find all the suggestions I have made over the years. There used to be another young male who posted here; he is a teacher and he shared many of my opinions on the school issue. But he doesn't come here any more.

France's fertility rate is driven by its large immigrant population, not that it really matters. Everyone has to get educated.

What's Really Behind Europe's Decline? It's The Birth Rates, Stupid - Forbes
British birth rate has soared to one of highest in Europe thanks to increase in migrants | Mail Online
Uh... those immigrants are in fact full French citizens, so I was including the children of Algerian, Moroccan, African, etc. descent as French. Or British citizens as the case may be. I'd also point out that in the affluent inner arrondissements of Paris, the young kids I was seeing were more conventionally "white" Parisians. Sorry for the thread drift.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:08 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Here is just a sampling of posts of mine about schools in the past 6 months:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Unfortunately, magnets and charters do not benefit the kids who don't get in via the lottery. (Magnets sometimes require some type of testing in.) Good schools should be available for everyone, not just those with special talents, e.g. Denver School for the Arts, or who luck in or have enough political connections with the schools to get in to a charter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In the first place, this thread is about placement of schools. Now unless you're going to build a whole city from scratch, you have to have some city-school cooperation going on to accomplish this. In my community, developers are required to donate land for schools (in some cases give cash in lieu of) so a neighborhood school can be built when the need arises. In the case of family-style housing, that's usually pretty quickly. I have had the opportunity to watch my community grow from a town of 5000 in 1982 to almost 20,000 toady. I have an idea how this works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Having worked with (not for) the schools for many years, that is actually true. Each building first needs to be built to the tune of millions of dollars. Then they all need to be staffed. Each building needs a principal.That's what costs the big bucks in schools, personnel. It's harder to be flexible with class assignments in a small, 1-2 round per grade level school than in a larger one. Many issues here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The biggest part of any school district's budget is personnel, e.g. wages, salaries and benefits. That takes up about 80% of the budget. I know every state does things a little differently, does Ohio build the schools for the districts?

Salaries are largest part of district budget - GreenwichTime
From a random Google search (above). Note 55% for teachers alone! That doesn't even count the parapros, the administrators, the custodians, bus drivers, lunchroom personnel, etc.

My kids went to an elementary school of ~600 kids, about 100 per grade level. The gym, music room and library were always busy. If you have a school 1/4 that size (1 rnd per grade level) those spaces sit empty much of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There is a movement for Aurora to become a city/county. Currently, it's part of three counties.
Aurora eyeing city and county status - The Denver Post

When Broomfield became a city/county, after having been part of at least 4 counties, the schools stayed the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Actually, I posted some links a while back that show that people do leave the city for the burbs for schools. You know d*mn well people leave the city to raise kids. And if you post on ANY city thread, you know that schools are a major concern of families when they relocate.



OK, but I will suggest urbanlife78 read rnc2mbfl's post closely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Having been involved with my school district for 25 years now, I can safely say they're naive. However, it's a start. One of the problems with schools is that many people lose interest when their own kids move on. That's really a problem in early childhood. If this is a K-8 school, the parents presumably will have their kids there for 9 years. During that time, they'll probably change their focus a bit. It is good that they're getting involved. The more people who see what is actually going on in the schools, and what it takes to make schools work, the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I'd like to do away with these "special" schools altogether, if it were politically possible. (It's not.) I am particularly opposed to charter schools. I'd love to be on a committee that selects students for these schools, and turn down a few "movers and shakers" kids. (The lottery in Colorado is not a "pure" lottery. Districts are allowed to use preferences, e.g. sibling in the school; parent a member of the founding board; some schools require a certain percentage of students to be receiving free and reduced lunch-this to combat the claim that they're only for elites-; in district before out of district; teacher's kids, etc. And some of the magnet schools have subjective criteria such as the submission of a portfolio to Denver School of the Arts.) Savvy people learn to game the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Go to your local elementary school and volunteer your services as a crossing guard! (J/K)

At a minimum, find out which schools service your neighborhood, elementary, middle and high school. Read the news articles about your local schools.

I can tell you, very few people besides parents attend any activities at schools, but you might enjoy a HS play, concert or something. My spouse loves football, and we've gone to HS football games before and after we had kids in the schools.


And finally, a word from a young teacher:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
This is an urban planning forum populated by young childless people who would be into walkable environments and the current fad right now is to "live, work, and play" downtown. Back to the city living is more popular right now compared to the last 50 years, but don't mistake that to mean that is what people are doing so in mass. I need to find the data again, but IIRC a significant chunk of millennials are still choosing the suburbs over the city. It's not as one sided as many would believe.

I'm young and like city living as well, but I've also wondered the same thing as you. For example the word gentrification gets used a lot here, but it's hardly ever questioned since doing so raises the issue of some of the topics you're interested in and how they're how they're all interrelated. I find it problematic that people are telling you that these things don't get discussed here because it's an urban planning forum. Cities are increasingly becoming more dumbbell shaped with the ultra rich and ultra poor with the poor(those who can leave), working, and middle classes being squeezed out. Young transient millennial have no real reason to care outside of the abstract because we're not laying down our roots in any one location. When the time does come to do so, the sky is going to fall out when we realized we were more concerned about urban commercialism than making the institutions in our cities functional.

I'm a teacher and I'm interested in educational issues and it's hardly ever discussed here(which shows the age of the posters here). You would think it would be since schools today in the city are one reason why people choose to live in the suburbs over the city if they aren't rich enough to afford private school. I'm sure when many of us have children, we'll be going back to the suburbs(that and many of the buildings going up in cities aren't built for families).





I agree and I'm sure it also has to do with the economy as well since millennials are not going to be as well off as baby boomers due to the economy and growing income disparities.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
Uh... those immigrants are in fact full French citizens, so I was including the children of Algerian, Moroccan, African, etc. descent as French. Or British citizens as the case may be. I'd also point out that in the affluent inner arrondissements of Paris, the young kids I was seeing were more conventionally "white" Parisians. Sorry for the thread drift.
The kids are full French citizens; their parents may not be.
How to Become a Citizen of France: 5 Steps (with Pictures)
One has to live in France for five years and actually apply for citizenship.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:16 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,048,200 times
Reputation: 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The kids are full French citizens; their parents may not be.
How to Become a Citizen of France: 5 Steps (with Pictures)
One has to live in France for five years and actually apply for citizenship.
Which means nothing to the fertility rate.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:38 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
Which means nothing to the fertility rate.
Nor did the comments about the immigrants being full French citizens have anything to do with the fertility rate. I have read many articles stating that if it weren't for France's immigrant population, its fertility rate would be much lower FWIW. Why do I get the feeling you're trying to make this discussion into something else?
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Old 07-02-2014, 05:08 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I have made many suggestions about schools. I have suggested people on this forum get involved with their local schools as volunteers. I have suggested that city planning agencies have reps from the schools. You can search through my posts and find all the suggestions I have made over the years. There used to be another young male who posted here; he is a teacher and he shared many of my opinions on the school issue. But he doesn't come here any more.
Ok, I forgot some of those. The second bolded part I don't see the point, why would have people from an agency that doesn't have a background in education be of much help? At worst, it could be interference from incompetent outsiders.

Quote:
France's fertility rate is driven by its large immigrant population, not that it really matters. Everyone has to get educated.
That's incorrect, a poster in a conversation you were in showed otherwise (see linked map and his comments below it):

Have you lived in the suburbs before?

Note the source "Migration Watch" you mentioned may be a right-wing anti-immigrant group. Doesn't make it wrong just raises suspicions.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:50 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Ok, I forgot some of those. The second bolded part I don't see the point, why would have people from an agency that doesn't have a background in education be of much help? At worst, it could be interference from incompetent outsiders.



That's incorrect, a poster in a conversation you were in showed otherwise (see linked map and his comments below it):

Have you lived in the suburbs before?

Note the source "Migration Watch" you mentioned may be a right-wing anti-immigrant group. Doesn't make it wrong just raises suspicions.
I think since schools are an integral part of a city, they should be represented in city decision making. Not on every work committee, but in some of these "big picture" committees. I do know that the developers around here usually consult with the school district, which is a multi-community district, when planning a project, to get a projected student count. I've also been to civic meetings where a representative from the school district is present to give input.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:55 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I think since schools are an integral part of a city, they should be represented in city decision making. Not on every work committee, but in some of these "big picture" committees. I do know that the developers around here usually consult with the school district, which is a multi-community district, when planning a project, to get a projected student count. I've also been to civic meetings where a representative from the school district is present to give input.
Ok, that makes sense. Though I thought the bolded was the case to some extent already. Though, in the town I grew up in, there was no connection between the town board and school system. The schools seem to function fine anyway though.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^I think you misunderstood what I meant by my previous post. The urbanists on this forum, which skew towards the young male chidfree demographic, simply don't care about the schools. Many have said as much. They don't think schools have anything to do with urban planning. No matter that in decades past, the schools were the key to joining the middle class, etc. The cities don't run the schools, they say. Now most of them are all excited about transit, and the cities don't run the transit usually either, but "that's different". At most they say charters and magnets are the way to go. These schools may have their place, but they can't guarantee a spot to everyone who wants to access them. For those poor souls, tough beans. Deal.
I do think schools are a difficult thing to tackle, they probably have more of a local component than transit does. Transit can be pretty clearly defined in terms of what works, what doesn't and there isn't all that much variation.

But what works in Oakland probably doesn't translate well to Philly since the reasons for urban school decline can be a lot more complex. SF and Oakland don't have the same urban school challenges and they are 10 miles apart.

That's why I wouldn't put it in the urban planning forum on this forum, but it would probably be good in the education forum (or obviously the local ones).

Education is far more nuanced.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:26 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I do think schools are a difficult thing to tackle, they probably have more of a local component than transit does. Transit can be pretty clearly defined in terms of what works, what doesn't and there isn't all that much variation.

But what works in Oakland probably doesn't translate well to Philly since the reasons for urban school decline can be a lot more complex. SF and Oakland don't have the same urban school challenges and they are 10 miles apart.

That's why I wouldn't put it in the urban planning forum on this forum, but it would probably be good in the education forum (or obviously the local ones).

Education is far more nuanced.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Education is important to city residents. Just go to the first page of ANY city forum and look at the threads about where to live. People want good schools! There is little difference between what constitutes a good education in Oakland vs Philly. Some rural areas may want agricultural education, but that's about it. There are some basics that every child in every district needs.

It's easy to just shunt if off to some other forum. The ed forum rarely looks at schools from an urban planning perspective. I don't think city governments should get into curriculum, if kids should eat with their classes at lunch vs with their friends, stuff that gets discussed on education.

Looking for good high schools near Buckley AFB
Autism Services?
(From p. 2 but a very common topic)
Tips on Family Friendly Neighborhoods in Pittsburgh (Have to read the OP)
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