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Old 07-29-2014, 09:28 PM
 
56,564 posts, read 80,847,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I am so puzzled by this idea that only people with lawns get to know their neighbors. And that the only city housing available is huge residential skyscrapers.

I live in a denser neighborhood. There are like 2 high rises nearby, but most other buildings are 3-5 stories.

I'll pick the street view for a nearby street:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ve...89c56ce6def7d5

The area I live has about 10-15k density, which is right around what you need for decent transit access. This street is around a 5 minute walk from this commercial district.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ve...89c56ce6def7d5

If you lived there, and walked 10 minutes, you'd access a municipal Rose Garden, year round weekly farmers market, Safeway, Trader Joes, and dozens of restaurants etc. There is also a lake (with running trails, a kid's play land that was the inspiration for Disney land, a bonsai Garden, bird sanctuary, picnic tables, playgrounds, and other stuff) in that 10ish minute radius. There are also several bus lines in the 10 minute walk serving SF, downtown Oakland, and other places in the area. This street has more multifamily housing, but not quite as many as my street. You can go a few streets over, and it is all more single family stuff.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ve...89c56ce6def7d5

This is what exists roughly 2 miles from downtown Oakland. It is still "urban" and "in the city" and "walkable" but not all that different from suburbia. People have lawns and yards, many of those homes have mature street trees. It is not on common to find lemon, oranges, figs, and peaches as part of the front yard landscaping over there.

For me, that's the perfect family neighborhood! No 20 story high rises required. The tallest buildings over there are about 4 floors (it is the next neighborhood over from mine, mine looks the same, but my commercial district has tall buildings and a hospital mixed in). And the great thing is, since there are multiple housing types, all sorts of families could live there. Some people can have a larger house, some people can have a condo, and other people can rent an apartment, and all have access to the amenities.
I totally get what you are saying, as there are similar areas in Syracuse as well and they are popular with a range of people, including families. So, it is something that is more common than some may think it is. This area comes to mind: UNPA - University Neighborhood Preservation Association
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:41 PM
 
13,040 posts, read 15,385,717 times
Reputation: 15282
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
When I was a kid, my parents let us loose basically anywhere in a 2 block radius. My school was on the next block, and that was allowed as well. We could go to the playground there unaccompanied. We played in the yard too, but after I was in roughly kindergarten or first grade I was allowed to play outside by myself in my neighborhood. I don't remember many occasions where mom was watching closely at all! .
That would be really dumb for anyone to do in this day and age when we hear about child abductions and murders almost daily. Which reinforces my idea that suburban living is better for raising children, where they can play in your own yard where you can see them, and all the neighbors know each other and are looking out for each others' kids. That way they are aren't two blocks away, out of sight, in a densely populated neighborhood where someone could grab them and be gone in an instant without being noticed.
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:00 PM
 
56,564 posts, read 80,847,919 times
Reputation: 12499
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
That would be really dumb for anyone to do in this day and age when we hear about child abductions and murders almost daily. Which reinforces my idea that suburban living is better for raising children, where they can play in your own yard where you can see them, and all the neighbors know each other and are looking out for each others' kids. That way they are aren't two blocks away, out of sight, in a densely populated neighborhood where someone could grab them and be gone in an instant without being noticed.
You can still have that type of neighborhood within a city, while being close to amenities. This is a neighborhood in my area that comes to mind:
http://goo.gl/maps/ajYF3

and another one:
http://goo.gl/maps/AEy51
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
That would be really dumb for anyone to do in this day and age when we hear about child abductions and murders almost daily. Which reinforces my idea that suburban living is better for raising children, where they can play in your own yard where you can see them, and all the neighbors know each other and are looking out for each others' kids. That way they are aren't two blocks away, out of sight, in a densely populated neighborhood where someone could grab them and be gone in an instant without being noticed.
Actually these abductions are really rare and declining. Now we just have media in out face so often, things feel a lot more frequent than they were pre-smartphone and the always on era.

Child Abductions By Strangers Very Rare : Discovery News
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:35 PM
 
13,040 posts, read 15,385,717 times
Reputation: 15282
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Actually these abductions are really rare and declining. Now we just have media in out face so often, things feel a lot more frequent than they were pre-smartphone and the always on era.

Child Abductions By Strangers Very Rare : Discovery News
Tell that to the people who have had children murdered in the last year. And by all means, let's send our kids out to play two blocks away unattended once they are in kindergarten since child abductions by strangers are so rare!
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Tell that to the people who have had children murdered in the last year. And by all means, let's send our kids out to play two blocks away unattended once they are in kindergarten since child abductions by strangers are so rare!
These abductions and murders are committed by people the kid already knows. You should watch the friend circle instead of the constant fear of stranger danger.

Parenting in our current age has become very fearful. Kids don't have to chance to take the small risk that help you make better decisions later.

Kids need the unstructured time, but things are so scheduled these days. Many kids, who never had the opportunity to make little decisions go buck wild the moment they are in an unsupervised situation. When do you met the kids play outside by themselves. Cross the street alone. Ride the bus alone. Go on a long bike ride with only their friends.

A coupe weeks ago I saw a boy, around 7 or 8 in the bathroom. He looked at me so I said "hi!" He replied "my mom told me never to talk to strangers." A few moments later mom, who was just exiting the stall, said, "it's ok, you can say hi to her." It's a really sad day that kid was "afraid" of making the wrong decision with mom a few feet away.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:49 PM
 
13,040 posts, read 15,385,717 times
Reputation: 15282
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
These abductions and murders are committed by people the kid already knows. You should watch the friend circle instead of the constant fear of stranger danger.

Parenting in our current age has become very fearful. Kids don't have to chance to take the small risk that help you make better decisions later.

Kids need the unstructured time, but things are so scheduled these days. Many kids, who never had the opportunity to make little decisions go buck wild the moment they are in an unsupervised situation. When do you met the kids play outside by themselves. Cross the street alone. Ride the bus alone. Go on a long bike ride with only their friends.

A coupe weeks ago I saw a boy, around 7 or 8 in the bathroom. He looked at me so I said "hi!" He replied "my mom told me never to talk to strangers." A few moments later mom, who was just exiting the stall, said, "it's ok, you can say hi to her." It's a really sad day that kid was "afraid" of making the wrong decision with mom a few feet away.
I think you must not have kids. My kids grew up in the suburbs, where they could run and play and ride their bikes and the people around were neighbors. The reason I lived where I did was so that they COULD play and be safe in our neighborhood. I would NOT let a kindergarten kid have a two block radius in a densely populated urban area where they would be out of my sight. That is insane.

"These abductions/murders are committed by people the kid already knows?" Really? You must not pay any attention to what is going on in the world. Do you not understand the prevalence of child porn? Child prostitution?

I have listed some things below, which is nowhere near extensive. It includes some abductions and murders and some attempted abductions and it doesn't even scratch the surface. It does not include kids who were abducted and still missing. You can search just as easily as I can, but I see you have already decided that it is fine to let kids have a two block radius where you can't see them.


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Murdered Teen April Millsap Texted 'OMG..I Think I'm Being Kidnapped'

Attempted child abduction thwarted when girl asks stranger for code word | CTV Toronto News

Suspect arrested in San Leandro attempted child abduction | www.ktvu.com

Attempted child abductions reported

Brave 6-Year-Old Rescued After Telling a Stranger She Was Kidnapped…But It’s Where Police Arrested the Suspect That’s Really Bizarre | Video | TheBlaze.com

Tulsa Girl Reunited with Family after Stranger Abduction

Longwood man accused of plotting child's rape, murder arrested

Good Samaritan, Eric Lee, thwarts alleged kidnapper attempting to abduct 2 children in Landover, Md. | WJLA.com

Three years, three girls abducted, killed in Southwest Missouri | fox4kc.com

Overland Park police investigate attempted child abduction - KCTV5

Community Concerns After Reports Of Child Abduction Attempts CBS Dallas / Fort Worth
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,917,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I think you must not have kids. My kids grew up in the suburbs, where they could run and play and ride their bikes and the people around were neighbors. The reason I lived where I did was so that they COULD play and be safe in our neighborhood. I would NOT let a kindergarten kid have a two block radius in a densely populated urban area where they would be out of my sight. That is insane.

"These abductions/murders are committed by people the kid already knows?" Really? You must not pay any attention to what is going on in the world. Do you not understand the prevalence of child porn? Child prostitution?

I have listed some things below, which is nowhere near extensive. It includes some abductions and murders and some attempted abductions and it doesn't even scratch the surface. It does not include kids who were abducted and still missing. You can search just as easily as I can, but I see you have already decided that it is fine to let kids have a two block radius where you can't see them.
The plural of anecdote is not data! The local news spends more time today reporting upon crime despite crime having consistently fallen for the past 20 years or so. Perception is way out of whack with reality now.



Regardless, virtually every link you posted was to a suburban type area. A few are in Sun Belt cities (Houston, Tulsa, etc), but these have many structurally suburban neighborhoods within the city proper, and unincorporated areas which may be called by the city name. I have no way to tell what kind of neighborhoods the abductions/murders happened in. Indeed, there is no particular reason to presume that child predators would be more likely to live in cities than anywhere else. If you're a child predator living in the city isn't the ideal place, because there tend to be less kids overall. And there tend to be more "eyes on the street" at all times, which makes abduction more difficult.

That's not to say in the wrong city neighborhood kids might not get into other kinds of trouble. But young children are far less likely to be victims of crimes than adults. This makes logical sense, because even the most hardened gangbanger won't bother robbing a kid, since he's not going to have more than a few dollars on him anyway. Once they get older, of course, they have to start worrying a lot more about being crime victims - especially victims of crimes perpetrated by their peers. But you can avoid much of this by picking a neighborhood and a school which are largely peaceful.

FWIW I live in a city, and have a daughter who's almost five, and a son who's ten months old. I wouldn't let my daughter wander around outside alone yet, but by 8-9 I wouldn't worry, since I went around outside on my own at that age. It's more likely she might get hit by a car than be abducted, which would apply equally in the suburbs. Honestly my biggest worry would be nosy helicopter parents reporting me, since apparently it's now considered bad parenting to leave an eight-year old alone for any length of time. Modern parenting boggles my mind.

Last edited by eschaton; 07-30-2014 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I think you must not have kids. My kids grew up in the suburbs, where they could run and play and ride their bikes and the people around were neighbors. The reason I lived where I did was so that they COULD play and be safe in our neighborhood. I would NOT let a kindergarten kid have a two block radius in a densely populated urban area where they would be out of my sight. That is insane.

"These abductions/murders are committed by people the kid already knows?" Really? You must not pay any attention to what is going on in the world. Do you not understand the prevalence of child porn? Child prostitution?

I have listed some things below, which is nowhere near extensive. It includes some abductions and murders and some attempted abductions and it doesn't even scratch the surface. It does not include kids who were abducted and still missing. You can search just as easily as I can, but I see you have already decided that it is fine to let kids have a two block radius where you can't see them.

I don't have kids. I grew up in the burbs as well. I live in a city on a busy street, so yes I would wait till my kids were old enough to cross a busy street before letting them play on my block.

But you seem to think city comes in one form. I just need to go 3 blocks over and there are streets that are just as quiet as the suburban ones I grew up on, with no car traffic and single family homes. And young kids are playing in the streets there often. It is still the city. My kids could play in that 2 block radius no problem. Cities can have single family homes, yards and a safe streets. There is no one form for urban. Not every city looks like manhattan.

*most of those incidents you posted were in the suburbs does that mean the burbs are not safe? The last few amber alerts we have had locally have all been "abductions" by a non-custodial parent. The other kid violence has been mostly acquaintance or classmate related. Unfortunately we have seen several incidents of rape at raging in teenage parties. Not exactly a "city" problem.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:41 PM
 
1,207 posts, read 884,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
That would be really dumb for anyone to do in this day and age when we hear about child abductions and murders almost daily. Which reinforces my idea that suburban living is better for raising children, where they can play in your own yard where you can see them, and all the neighbors know each other and are looking out for each others' kids. That way they are aren't two blocks away, out of sight, in a densely populated neighborhood where someone could grab them and be gone in an instant without being noticed.
While I wouldn't advocate sending a 5 year old blocks away on their own, I would start considering it around age 9 in our urban neighborhood. This fear of rare threats like murderous child abductors is hugely overblown and the mentality behind it is partly why American kids in the suburbs often end up being so sheltered. To restrict a child's ability to experience independence because you think one of these extremely rare incidents will occur is doing an injustice to your child. If you want your kids to be safer, keep them out of the most deadly threat to them - the inside of automobiles! Live somewhere where they don't need to use one often - like a city. Most of the teens in my neighborhood actually have no desire at all to own a car when they turn 17. Some don't even bother getting a drivers license. Once you factor in the fact that car accidents are the #1 killer of teens, it also makes it a much safer way of life.

One thing parents of younger kids fail to consider is how much older kids and teens benefit from living in a walk-able urban neighborhood. Having your schools friends all within walking distance, being able to walk with your friends to the square for lunch, ice cream, or to the park. Riding the train to other neighborhoods.
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