U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-28-2014, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,757,248 times
Reputation: 26681

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No, but it offers the freedom to come and go as you wish and not be tied to the schedule of public transit. Need to show up at work at 4 a.m., it is possible with a car not so possible(or dangerous...like get mugged cause no one is around) by bus. You can leave work and run errands or even run errands or travel further on a lunch break. If you stay late no worries about missing the last bus.

I know someone who is pro-car. You would have to pull the steering wheel out of her cold dead hands as the saying goes and even she hated driving to work due to traffic but she had no choice. There is plenty of transit in the area but she need to carry stuff, need to be able to go to different locations for work, needed to go to an 2nd job sometimes(which could be reached by transit but she also is someone who shouldn't be out in extreme cold for weather reasons) but then needed to come home late from that 2nd job(and not run as much risk of getting mugged/robbed/raped). Public transit does not fit the bill and biking would be impractical for many reasons.
Sure it sounds like your friend had the sort of schedule where a car is the best and really only option. Most people don't have that extreme of a schedule. Most people go to work, stay all day unless they go out to lunch, and go home. Lots of people like that should have the option not to drive.

Yes, having transit at 4am is hard and not really available in most metro areas. But having good transit options from 7a to midnight would cover most people's daily use cases.

But the biggest problem with having only a single transportation is what happens if you no longer have access to a car. What if it is broken, you have to get it repaired, you have aged out of driving or something else. Should you just stay at home?

A few months ago I had to take my car in and they had to order a part. So it ended up being unavailable to me for 3 days. But I didn't need to rent a car for those 3 days. I was able to take the bus to work, get my groceries and do all of my normal stuff without my car. Redundancy and options are great.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-01-2014, 04:01 AM
 
182 posts, read 167,434 times
Reputation: 216
I hate the necessity to own a car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 07:41 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Lots of American cities already had sidewalks before the car for pedestrian safety(bikes, horse and carriage as well as street car are not good things to be walking too close to) and sanitation reasons so the pedestrian was usually accommodated already. It was just new development that might not have a sidewalk.

Street cars and autos don't mix well and Street cars have problems of their own so with the move to buses no need for rail. Taking away a car lane can be a waste of space if there are not enough buses or other transit to use it.
Having sidewalk is the bare minimum, that wasn't what I was referring to. And anyway, almost all new development in the western US has sidewalks, but car use for trips is higher.

Taking a car lane would be a waste if there aren't enough buses to use it, but where there are, Europe tends to remove car lanes for surface transit more. In a congested area, it's hard to make transit time competitive without segregated lanes.

Quote:
Europe is made up of small countries so being near a rail line not so hard and building those highways was possible because the US in the 50ies was very wealthy. The density is also a result of being small countries(small boarders) and higher land prices.
True, though as mentioned before the Northeast Corridor is similar to European densities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 07:43 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post

I know someone who is pro-car. You would have to pull the steering wheel out of her cold dead hands as the saying goes and even she hated driving to work due to traffic but she had no choice. There is plenty of transit in the area but she need to carry stuff, need to be able to go to different locations for work, needed to go to an 2nd job sometimes(which could be reached by transit but she also is someone who shouldn't be out in extreme cold for weather reasons) but then needed to come home late from that 2nd job(and not run as much risk of getting mugged/robbed/raped). Public transit does not fit the bill and biking would be impractical for many reasons.
It's not like cars are non-existent in Europe, nor a practical choice for everyone there. I know a number of people in London that drive to work, public transit wouldn't be time-efficient for most of their commutes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 07:51 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
Reputation: 14811
Interesting comparison of a European city in 1900 vs today, note how much bigger the buildings are. Found on a thread in another forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Wow, so cool: Helsinki 100 years ago and today.

Main street:
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659840592.jpg
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659875248.jpg

Kallio:
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659840511.jpg
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659866461.jpg

:
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659841405.jpg
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878131.jpg

http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659842041.jpg
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878290.jpg

http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659842374.jpg
http://is11.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878367.jpg

Spirit and no spirit:
http://is13.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659843461.jpg
http://is11.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878418.jpg

http://is11.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659843519.jpg
http://is11.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878532.jpg

http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659843670.jpg
http://is13.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659878735.jpg

http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659844894.jpg
http://is13.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659884168.jpg

http://is11.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659844959.jpg
http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/658/1288659884221.jpg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,771,048 times
Reputation: 1616
Helsinki looks like it was a lot smaller and less dense in 1900... Reminds me a bit of the outer urban/inner suburb type neighbourhoods of Budapest.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@47.49593...KptX9hrTMA!2e0
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/K&#...24c4656f32e123
https://www.google.ca/maps/@47.53724...gEkK_ld5MQ!2e0
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 12:57 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,869,649 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Sure it sounds like your friend had the sort of schedule where a car is the best and really only option. Most people don't have that extreme of a schedule. Most people go to work, stay all day unless they go out to lunch, and go home. Lots of people like that should have the option not to drive.

Yes, having transit at 4am is hard and not really available in most metro areas. But having good transit options from 7a to midnight would cover most people's daily use cases.

But the biggest problem with having only a single transportation is what happens if you no longer have access to a car. What if it is broken, you have to get it repaired, you have aged out of driving or something else. Should you just stay at home?

A few months ago I had to take my car in and they had to order a part. So it ended up being unavailable to me for 3 days. But I didn't need to rent a car for those 3 days. I was able to take the bus to work, get my groceries and do all of my normal stuff without my car. Redundancy and options are great.
You would be surprised at the number of people who work odd shifts and nights. Hospitals for instance are 24 hours, many restaurants now days 24 hours. Factories tend to have 10 hour sifts or are 24 hours. Policemen work 24 hour sifts. In addition ah I wouldn't care to be a young woman standing at the bus stop alone at midnight in the middle of January too dangerous.

I have had to be somewhere at 4a.m. or 6a.m.. Public transit also falls down when the choice is the bus and nothing else. Busses usually don't have their own right of way and are slower than the car such that it is often faster and more comfortable to sit in traffic than be trapped in the buss in traffic. Even when public transit is available who wants to be crowded unable to sit down after a long day at work(esp. if you have a job where you are on your feet all day.).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,757,248 times
Reputation: 26681
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
You would be surprised at the number of people who work odd shifts and nights. Hospitals for instance are 24 hours, many restaurants now days 24 hours. Factories tend to have 10 hour sifts or are 24 hours. Policemen work 24 hour sifts. In addition ah I wouldn't care to be a young woman standing at the bus stop alone at midnight in the middle of January too dangerous.

I have had to be somewhere at 4a.m. or 6a.m.. Public transit also falls down when the choice is the bus and nothing else. Busses usually don't have their own right of way and are slower than the car such that it is often faster and more comfortable to sit in traffic than be trapped in the buss in traffic. Even when public transit is available who wants to be crowded unable to sit down after a long day at work(esp. if you have a job where you are on your feet all day.).
I don't know how the fact that some people work hours that aren't well suited to transit means that we should not invest in transit and alternatives to driving. There are always going to be people who do not and can not drive. Should they just stay home? There is a stat floating around that about 1/3 of people are non-drivers (including people who are not of age). Around 15-20% of people do not drive because they can't afford a car, have no license but are of age or have a suspended license. What should they do?

Not all buses are crowded, not all bus stops are dangerous. And not all bus routes are slow. Not all busses sit in traffic, some cities have dedicated lanes. I take the bus to San Francisco because the bus ride is around 5 minutes longer than it would be to drive myself in no traffic, but unlike driving myself in an read the newspaper. During the commute window the bus is 20 minutes faster. I choose not to drive pretty option, why should we not have the choice because you don't like it? For some it is more convenient than using a private car and for others a private car will never be an option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 01:57 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
Reputation: 14811
Not sure how that connects to the thread topic. Can we get back to the thread topic?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,757,248 times
Reputation: 26681
Europe is less car dependent than we are in the US simply because they made a conscious choice to make non driving an attractive (or viable) option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top