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Old 03-10-2014, 01:42 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Can we try to keep it on Europe comparisons / analyses? Other debates have done plenty of times and can go on other threads?
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:31 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Big and medium French cities have a rather good transit system in inner part but lack of suburban transit (outside of Paris area) and most of the population live in suburbs and exurbs.
Rural exurban life is quite popular in France.

Smaller cities have almost inexistant transit system except few bus lines.
Often there are underground car parks at the entrance of the pedestrian city centers, people drive to those parkings and trips inside the city center is made by foot as the distances are short.
Many city centers are not anymore the a big employment centers, people work mostly in office parks and industrial areas located in suburban areas.
You have data on any other European countries? Or a by city/metro breakdown? Factoring out the small towns and rural areas where transit ridership must be insignificant, I'd guess French cities not Paris have a similar transit ridership to Canadian cities.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
A business traveler from Charlotte to Atlanta is going to do the same thing a business traveler arriving at DC Union Station does - they're going to walk outside to the taxi rank.

A college kid going home to Charlotte from Atlanta is going to do the same thing as a kid going from UPenn to New Haven - they're going to get picked up by mom & dad.

Everyone else can do the same thing they do when the land at an airport - rent a car. The basement of 30th St. Station is full of rental cars. All the major companies are represented there. Zipcar has a whole row of spaces just outside the door and the entire station is ringed with taxis.

The Charlotte to Atlanta corridor or Charlotte to Richmond corridor doesn't need to be full on HSR to be successful. The second alternative - the "Hybrid High Performance" with speeds up to 130mph is going to be 40% faster than driving and still competitive with flying.

A list of busy rail corridors with daily ridership/route length/average number of miles between stations/average speed/# of trains per day

Northeast Regional - 22,171 riders/664mi/19mps/53MPHh/18tpd

Acela - 8,918 riders/456mi/32mps/70mph/20tpd

Keystone (Harrisburg - NYC) 3,995/195mi/10mps/51mph/26tpd

^all of these trains share a lot of important stops. It should also be noted that 15-20 minute layovers in Philadelphia or NY Penn have a significant negative impact on average speeds.

Pacific Surfliner (San Diego - San Luis Obispo) - 8,758/350mi/13mps/42mph/22tpd

Capitol Corridor (San Jose - Auburn, CA) 4,533/168mi/10mps/52mph/30tpd

Empire (NYC - Buffalo) 3,917/460mi/31mps/62mph/+30tpd

Rounding it out are the:

Cascades (Eugene - Vancouver)

Hiawatha (Chicago - Milwaukee)

Lincoln (Chicago - St. Louis)

Any of these could be viable sort-of-HSR routes. Some routes saw up to 9% growth last year. A few short routes (Hiawatha for instance) lost 2% and that's on the routes where Megabus is killing them with hourly departures.

It's not that the travel demand isn't there. People want speed, comfort and frequent departures. Reliability is also a big problem in the midwest. These train routes don't need to top out at 220mph to be successful. They don't even need the average speeds of Acela - the 62mph average of the Empire Corridor is more than enough. Fix the bottlenecks, fix the ancient tracks and buy some more/better rolling stock and people will ride it.
I've ridden the Empire. It generally takes 6 hours, with stops, between Buffalo and Albany. You can drive that same distance in about 5 hours, so IMO 62 mph is NOT nearly "more than enough".
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I've ridden the Empire. It generally takes 6 hours, with stops, between Buffalo and Albany. You can drive that same distance in about 5 hours, so IMO 62 mph is NOT nearly "more than enough".
Wow you have some high standards. That is very comparable to driving. 62mph is great including stopping and loading time.

I take the capital corridor and San Joaquin trains because the time is super comparable to my drive but more predictable.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:36 PM
 
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The Capitol Corridor ride always seem shorter than it is. The Sacramento-Emeryville run is 75-90 minutes on the schedule, but I barely get settled in, have a burrito or a sandwich and a cup of coffee from the club car, read a few pages or surf the Web a little bit (yay for free wi-fi!) and it's time to get off the train already. Compared to white-knuckling it through Rush Hour traffic or joining the mad rush back from the Sierras during skiing season, which seems interminable, it's a lot more fun to take the train.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I've ridden the Empire. It generally takes 6 hours, with stops, between Buffalo and Albany. You can drive that same distance in about 5 hours, so IMO 62 mph is NOT nearly "more than enough".
That's because the empire corridor isn't 62 mph. Albany to buffalo is 288 miles, so 6 hours would be a bit under 50 mph. The NYC to Albany section is 60-65 mph, which is more competitive than just from the speed alone as the route is more congested and at one end a car is often more of a hindrance not an asset.

Worldwide, 60 average speed for long distance rail (commuter rail will be slower due to more stops) isn't noteworthy, it's considered standard speed.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Right.
Europe is less car dependant tha USA but it is still car dependant. "Less" doesn't mean "not".
Americans mostly know Europe via the town centers but most of the population doesn't live here, comparing american suburbia with european town centers is a good comparison.
Perhaps I'm one of the few non-European posters who's spent the majority of time in Europe in suburbs/outer parts of the city [specifically NW London]. London's atypical for the UK (maybe not as much as Paris is for France ) and perhaps the UK is a bit different from most of Europe (or is no more different than any other region?). From what I noticed:

1) Most drove to go shopping, work except to go to the city center. The local buses had very good coverage but kinda slow
2) Convenient parking, to levels taken for granted in American suburbia, aren't the norm. Paying for parking is more common than not, other than certain large stores individual stores didn't have their own lot, and strip malls were rare. Most shopping was arranged in a Main Street-format (well in British English, High Street) rather than strip malls. One would drive to shop, then walk rather than drive between stores.
3) Semi-detached homes were a bit more common than detached homes. All homes were on small lots for American suburban standards.
4) While generally streets were pedestrian friendly (sidewalks, safe intersections, stores close to the street) but sometimes distance from homes to a business district could be a rather long walk, making the neighborhood realistically car-dependent.

None of these would be unfamiliar to Americans (especially those familiar with denser American cities), it was more the proportions of types of neighborhoods and housing that's different from home and the near lack of certain types of sprawl.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:05 PM
 
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Note that I forgot to put the "not" in the last sentence of my message (the quoted one in Nei post).
Paris is pretty atypical in France, it is pretty much the only BIG city in a country of small and medium cities.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Perhaps I'm one of the few non-European posters who's spent the majority of time in Europe in suburbs/outer parts of the city [specifically NW London]. London's atypical for the UK (maybe not as much as Paris is for France ) and perhaps the UK is a bit different from most of Europe (or is no more different than any other region?). From what I noticed:

1) Most drove to go shopping, work except to go to the city center. The local buses had very good coverage but kinda slow
2) Convenient parking, to levels taken for granted in American suburbia, aren't the norm. Paying for parking is more common than not, other than certain large stores individual stores didn't have their own lot, and strip malls were rare. Most shopping was arranged in a Main Street-format (well in British English, High Street) rather than strip malls. One would drive to shop, then walk rather than drive between stores.
3) Semi-detached homes were a bit more common than detached homes. All homes were on small lots for American suburban standards.
4) While generally streets were pedestrian friendly (sidewalks, safe intersections, stores close to the street) but sometimes distance from homes to a business district could be a rather long walk, making the neighborhood realistically car-dependent.

None of these would be unfamiliar to Americans (especially those familiar with denser American cities), it was more the proportions of types of neighborhoods and housing that's different from home and the near lack of certain types of sprawl.
This sounds like an American inner suburb.
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:42 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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some comparisons of mid century European (and a South American example) suburbs and newer American ones. Didn't use particularly appealing American ones, though.

Old Urbanist: Setbacks, Suburbs and the American Front Lawn
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