U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-24-2014, 07:00 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805

Advertisements

This is an urban planning forum, issues relevant to rural areas are generally not discussed that's for the rural and small town living forum. The purpose of this thread was to compare Europe with the US. Many if not most Europeans still drive, however, a car isn't as necessary for most trips. There are also rural areas in Europe, while distances are much smaller than Montana obviously, rural Europeans mostly get around by car as well and with higher gas prices.

Most Americans live in cities or their suburbs not rural areas. And most of these residents make day to day trip within the same metropolitan area. The fact that distances between metropolitan areas are higher than Europe does not matter affect day to day transportation needs, as they are within the same metro.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-24-2014, 08:51 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,209 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The fact that distances between metropolitan areas are higher than Europe does not matter affect day to day transportation needs, as they are within the same metro.
Actually it does. My own relatives used to use the car to drive to visit family that were out of state. People in this country do make road trips. The lower population density of an area also means greater distances between stores and other shopping. While we are not all rural, the rural parts of the country are as important as the urban parts when it comes to transportation policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2014, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26656
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Actually it does. My own relatives used to use the car to drive to visit family that were out of state. People in this country do make road trips. The lower population density of an area also means greater distances between stores and other shopping. While we are not all rural, the rural parts of the country are as important as the urban parts when it comes to transportation policy.
Do they do that daily? Probably not. Not many people leave their metro on a regular basis. And most people only travel a small distance in their metro.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 01:26 AM
 
1,110 posts, read 909,052 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Do they do that daily? Probably not. Not many people leave their metro on a regular basis. And most people only travel a small distance in their metro.
Can I get a stat on this? What is the definition of "small distance?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26656
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlando-calrissian View Post
Can I get a stat on this? What is the definition of "small distance?"
There is a driving pattern study, I posted it in a thread somewhere. Like 70% of all car trips were less than 10 miles. Half were less than 5. It was a national study.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 12:10 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,932,349 times
Reputation: 18050
One can find if searching the studies of Japanese who looked to selling high speed trains to US with its distances if you care to. The findings of where it made sense fiscally is quite surprising and very limited really.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,523,816 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
I have read throughout the postings and keep realizing there are two types of people reading and commenting on these threads.

Type 1--Big City Residents. They think public transportation, bicycles, and walking are all that anyone should need for transportation.

Type 2--Rural Population. They look at altogether differently, and realize that auto transportation is the only way for them to get around locally and by auto or air when they want to go cross country.

Some keep talking about how it is done in Europe, especially England. That is so different a situation than the majority of the U.S. it is not even funny.

Take my state of Montana as an example. Montana with a population of just about exactly 1,000,000 in the entire state with the largest city of 100,000 is almost 3 times the size of England with a population of 56,500,000 people or about half again the population of the entire United Kingdom with a population of 63,395,486. Towns and cities are many miles apart, unlike England where the next town is 5 miles down the road. Example we drive 50 miles to Billings the largest city, just to go shopping. We drive to Billings for any medical specialties. Billings has top rated medical facilities that serve 4 states and Southern Canada. One of the few medical facilities that own 2 helicopters, and 3 twin engine turbo prop aircraft to handle emergency medical problems. All fully staffed with top people.

My daughter has to drive to Denver, Co. for a medical appointment on Monday with a top specialist this weekend, which is a day each way. The has to make this trip 4 to 6 times every year.

In our part of the country, public transportation is not an option, and never will be.

Some people cry on this thread that we should tax gasoline, etc., etc., to the point people cannot afford to drive, and have to use public transportation.

They complain that the states out here in the west, often receive more in tax money than they pay in, which they think is unfair. What the don't realize is, a lot of this extra money is government payment in lieu of the government paying property taxes on land the government owns in the state. When you consider all the federal government owns in the state, some states such as Nevada is 86% owned by the federal government, there is no way that the state would not receive more from the federal government than the citizens pay out to the government. Consider a lot of that money in the west, goes to the Indian Reservations and counted as money into the state being more than is paid out. Montana has 7 large Indian reservations, with largest larger than the smallest state.

I have lived both in largest cities in U.S., and in small town America. I understand both sides of the coin, unlike so many on these threads, that only see their local situation and beliefs.

Population is concentrated. 80% of people live within 62 miles of the coast, with about 40% living within 37 miles of a coast. Just think that there is nearly 3,000 miles between those population concentrations. What works within 50 miles of a coast, is not usable for nearly 3,000 miles except for a few major cities.

We are a large country, and what works in one area does not work other areas, especially for transportation.
I think the issues happen when rural people think city people want to make their rural areas into big cities, and suburban people thinking every place needs to have a big parking lot in front of it to be useful.

When someone says they live in a rural area and have to drive everywhere, I totally get that. It would be silly to make rural areas bikeable. But this is an urban planning forum which typically means it is talking about cities and urban planning in cities. Rural land usually functions by different rules when it comes to planning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 02:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I think the issues happen when rural people think city people want to make their rural areas into big cities, and suburban people thinking every place needs to have a big parking lot in front of it to be useful.

When someone says they live in a rural area and have to drive everywhere, I totally get that. It would be silly to make rural areas bikeable. But this is an urban planning forum which typically means it is talking about cities and urban planning in cities. Rural land usually functions by different rules when it comes to planning.
Untrue and inflammatory.

We were just talking about "sprawl" on the Denver forum. Surely you urbanists have seen Colorado called "Sprawlorado"? The thing is, most people have amenities that they can walk/bike to, even in a suburban environment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,523,816 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Untrue and inflammatory.

We were just talking about "sprawl" on the Denver forum. Surely you urbanists have seen Colorado called "Sprawlorado"? The thing is, most people have amenities that they can walk/bike to, even in a suburban environment.
I have never heard that term before, but then again I don't know much about Colorado...maybe it is a term people in Colorado use. Though that is hardly inflammatory, I grew up in a suburban city where every business was required by zoning laws to have more parking than they would need in front of their business when building anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2014, 07:30 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
We were just talking about "sprawl" on the Denver forum. Surely you urbanists have seen Colorado called "Sprawlorado"?
No. Colorado is mostly know for skiing and mountains here.

Quote:
The thing is, most people have amenities that they can walk/bike to, even in a suburban environment.
Perhaps bike. But walk in any convenient sense? Probably not. You stated most people don't live 1/2 mile from amenities. You could up the distance thershold a bit further, but unless all the shops are in the same place, it's not that practical for much further.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top