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Old 02-27-2014, 02:07 PM
 
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Walkability has nothing to do with the ability to walk from point A to point B (an extremely low bar requiring nothing more than a path upon which one might walk) but rather a whole host of qualities than make a place an attractive place to walk in. Urbanists have far higher standards than merely a designated path for pedestrians. Walkable places must have useful places to walk to, be comfortable, be interesting, be safe and perceived as being safe, etc.
Kohmet your "urbanist" buddies will try to destroy a perfectly good neighborhood because it doesn't meet your "far higher standards" and perception of safety.

This site's TOS prevents me from saying what I think of you but please keep your destructive elitism to yourself. This thread is about the concept that factories just might be an asset to a neighborhood. Many older neighborhoods would not exist if the factories were not there first.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Your premise is faulty. Walkability has nothing to do with the ability to walk from point A to point B (an extremely low bar requiring nothing more than a path upon which one might walk) but rather a whole host of qualities than make a place an attractive place to walk in. Urbanists have far higher standards than merely a designated path for pedestrians. Walkable places must have useful places to walk to, be comfortable, be interesting, be safe and perceived as being safe, etc.

That should inform the rest of your question.

Here's a nice short video on walkability - spoiler alert - it isn't a sidewalk that makes a place walkable.


9) Walkability from the sky vs. the ground - Another Place for Me - YouTube
Why can't a factory be made to be an attractive place to walk in or by? Maybe the walls could play a role as a public graffiti canvas or something to make it unique and fit well within the urban atmosphere you describe. I don't see why this isn't possible, as factories were integral parts of neighborhoods before the automobile. Of course, no one wants to live next to a big, smelly meat packing plant, or some giant ugly warehouse made of corrugated steel, but small artisan businesses, local manufacturers, and tech industries could easily fit in any sort of otherwise residential/commercial neighborhood. As for heavier manufacturers, like Automobile factories, a multi-story factory would fit well in the neighborhood if it didn't produce too much pollution.

Speaking of which, why doesn't anyone make multi-story factories anymore, anyway? And why do they rarely have windows anymore?
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:15 PM
 
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I'm guessing that a neighborhood like this may fit somewhat: Syracuse's Franklin Square named one of 10 'hip hangouts' that used to be an 'industrial wasteland' | syracuse.com

Franklin Square, Syracuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://goo.gl/maps/0S873

It is still a work in progress, but it has made a pretty good transition.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-27-2014 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:39 PM
 
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For most people a factory means a job, and if they can save money by walking to it, so much the better.

Quote:
small artisan businesses, local manufacturers, and tech industries could easily fit in any sort of otherwise residential/commercial neighborhood
It doesn't have to be beautiful. Just having a job adds greatly to the quality of life.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:44 PM
 
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Factories are usually too spread out. Many even have bicycles for workers to get around.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^My spouse grew up in Omaha in the 50s/60s. I asked him recently if the packing houses were in residential neighborhoods. He said "no"; they were on the edge of town and there were always a lot of trucks around them.
How many fruit packing houses were there in Omaha in the 1950s/60s?

The neighborhoods I'm talking about date from the late 19th century through the 1920s. The 1950s/60s were a few decades after that.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Why can't a factory be made to be an attractive place to walk in or by? Maybe the walls could play a role as a public graffiti canvas or something to make it unique and fit well within the urban atmosphere you describe. I don't see why this isn't possible, as factories were integral parts of neighborhoods before the automobile. Of course, no one wants to live next to a big, smelly meat packing plant, or some giant ugly warehouse made of corrugated steel, but small artisan businesses, local manufacturers, and tech industries could easily fit in any sort of otherwise residential/commercial neighborhood. As for heavier manufacturers, like Automobile factories, a multi-story factory would fit well in the neighborhood if it didn't produce too much pollution.

Speaking of which, why doesn't anyone make multi-story factories anymore, anyway? And why do they rarely have windows anymore?
I didn't say it couldn't - it just has to conform to the rules of walkability.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:29 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
How many fruit packing houses were there in Omaha in the 1950s/60s?

The neighborhoods I'm talking about date from the late 19th century through the 1920s. The 1950s/60s were a few decades after that.
Funny how you mentioned the 50s.

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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Back when there were a lot of industrial jobs here, they were on the perimeter of the neighborhood, but definitely within walking distance--I talked to a lot of railroad and cannery/packing house workers and they almost invariably walked to work, even once cars were commonplace. Many were close to the river because goods were shipped via the river until the 1950s, when shipping moved to new port facilities in West Sacramento, and along the railroad lines, but there were multiple lines running through different parts of town. Generally, wherever there was an industrial facility, there was a neighborhood within walking distance where most of its workers lived. There were canneries on all four sides of the old city, each with their own neighborhood. The two major railroad shops, Southern Pacific and Western Pacific, also had neighborhoods close by, and if you check city directories you often found that within a few blocks, most of the residents worked at the nearby job center. For middle distances or more job options there were streetcars, and if you worked really far out you could always buy a car, but it wasn't an automatic option and it carried expenses. These facilities did not have huge parking lots for commuters, land was too expensive and too high-priority to waste on big parking lots.

Migrant farm laborers generally lived downtown, they got hired at hiring halls and were carried by farmer's truck or buses to the farm site, worked and lived there until the job was done, then got a ride back to Sacramento the same way.

Today, according to some recent studies, there are around 100,000 jobs of all sorts (primarily white-collar, but some blue-collar) in and around downtown Sacramento, but only 30,000 live downtown and another 45,000 in the surrounding neighborhoods within 1 mile. About 30% of those 75,000 people also work in the same radius. Many of them drive, only because driving is a lot easier and more convenient than it used to be, and is more of a societal expectation. But most don't have to.
To answer your question, I doubt there were any fruit packing houses in Omaha. They packed meat there. DH said in 3rd grade they took a field trip to a packing house, where they saw meat "on the hook".

Meat packing in Omaha goes back to ~1880. Union Stockyards (Omaha) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:50 PM
 
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See the word before "the 1950s"? It is "until." That means that I'm referring to things before that point, not afterward, and in this case was talking specifically about the port. And I'm not sure how it could be construed to mean I'm only talking about the 1950s and 1960s, which were the beginning of a very different era, in my own city and in many others, in terms of transportation and demographics.

Meatpacking is one of those noxious industries that moved out of city centers starting in the early 20th century--meatpacking houses stink. Fruit and vegetable packing doesn't result in large piles of rotting intestines around the packing house site, so it's a lot less of an effect on the neighborhood around the packing house, where most of the workers generally lived. There were some slaughterhouses in Sacramento, but they tended to be farther away from residential areas. One of the biggest, the Swanston plant, had a streetcar line that ran from downtown to the plant itself on the same tracks used by the electric railroad to serve the plant, and it was also served by steam railroads.

And, of course, "the edge of town" is a relative term. If the town is only two miles wide, then an industry on the edge of town is maybe a half-hour walk from most parts of town.

Last edited by nei; 02-28-2014 at 07:56 PM.. Reason: rude
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:08 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Meatpacking is one of those noxious industries that moved out of city centers starting in the early 20th century--meatpacking houses stink.
The Meatpacking District of Manhattan peaked in size in the 1940s, but declined in the 60s according to this link.


As the districtís industry grew, the need for more warehouse development grew. Unlike most neighborhoods, where residential buildings were torn down when commercial buildings were needed, most of the early residential buildings in the area remained intact and were converted into commercial warehouses. In 1934, the New York Central Railroadís elevated freeway was completed, improving distribution efforts further and creating a safer atmosphere for transporting meat and poultry to the slaughterhouses. By the end of World War II, the Meatpacking Districtís meat and poultry industry had become what the district was known for and was home to about 250 slaughterhouses.


Existed in place because next to the ports and a later freight rail link (mentioned above) helped it. The former are gone, the latter abandoned and then converted recently to the high line. Here's a photo:

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