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Old 03-04-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,560,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As for crossing midblock. Found via an online post by a friend who got it from Humans of New York:

Late last night I saw a man crossing 3rd Avenue, weighed down by two armloads of groceries. He didn't seem to notice that cars were coming in both directions. They began honking at him. Some slammed on their brakes. I waited for the man to realize his mistake and turn around, but instead he just plowed forward across four busy lanes of traffic. It did not seem like he was making any mental calculations-- it was just full speed ahead.
When he finally emerged on the other side, I approached him. "I'm just curious," I said. "Did you see those cars coming, and decide to go anyway? Or did you just suddenly find yourself in the middle of the situation?"
"It was an accident," he said. "I just found myself in some **** and had to keep going. Which, incidentally, is pretty much how I've lived my entire life."
Yeah, crossing Manhattan avenues midblock can definitely be dangerous and is definitely stupid to do. The thing with the avenues is that there is a crosswalk every 250ft which makes it much easier to cross at a light in a crosswalk. The long blocks are a different story and are sort of two lanes wide and much easier to cross midblock.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:25 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,030 posts, read 102,707,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Here's a old song about using the road sharing ( from European singers) for non-auto uses, or really non-transporation uses.

The Beatles- Why Don't We Do It In The Road -

Would have to be a rather empty for no one to be watching us.
I remember how witty we thought this was at the time.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:37 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,037,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I remember how witty we thought this was at the time.
It seemed approriate for the thread…

My college roommate had his then girlfriend over (now wife) and asked if I could leave for a bit. My response was to play that song.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Paris
8,133 posts, read 6,693,117 times
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^^ Question is, did they follow your advice?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
LOL, sure, when there's only one way out of the neighborhood, or all the outlets are jammed with kids playing, they can just wait around for a few hours until the game is over.
My (rather limited) experience with woonerf-like streets is that if someone wants to drive through, playing kids and their parents will let them pass. I've never seen a car sitting there for more than a couple minutes, nor did I have to - and this is in the most extreme cases.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
^^ Question is, did they follow your advice?




My (rather limited) experience with woonerf-like streets is that if someone wants to drive through, playing kids and their parents will let them pass. I've never seen a car sitting there for more than a couple minutes, nor did I have to - and this is in the most extreme cases.
That is something most of us would expect to happen on a woonerf type street. Just because pedestrians come first doesn't mean pedestrians won't let a car pass, you just can't expect to barrel down these streets in your car.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:45 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,030 posts, read 102,707,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
^^ Question is, did they follow your advice?




My (rather limited) experience with woonerf-like streets is that if someone wants to drive through, playing kids and their parents will let them pass. I've never seen a car sitting there for more than a couple minutes, nor did I have to - and this is in the most extreme cases.
That goes with something I posted upthread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
For a shared street to work, everyone has to know and operate by the same rules, which are different than the rules of the road. Different people have right of way, etc. One person not knowing/following the rules can gum up the whole system.
(Edited post)

It seems to me there would be a few unwritten rules as well, such as pedestrians need to get out of the way for cars ASAP. By law, in some of those countries, the peds could hold up the car traffic as long as they wished.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,080 posts, read 16,109,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Pedestrians cross the road, walk on the shoulder of the road to get in their car, in some places they walk in the road (with low traffic and low speeds in residential neighborhoods), etc. At least the first two have to be considered (which you even acknowledged), and it doesn't just automatically happen. Here's what it looks like when you don't account for pedestrians AT ALL:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6407...vUdw6Hd_vw!2e0

And why are you not in favor of lowering speed limits to have very low pedestrian injuries/deaths? What if it was your daughter was trying to cross that mess to get food on lunch? Would you not reduce speeds so she could there safely?
No.

The magic number for speed as far as pedestrian deaths is concerned is about 15-20 mph. After that, it rises very quickly for almost nothing to almost certain by 40 mph. And I see a crosswalk/signal light. No, it's not a pedestrian-friendly design. no sidewalks so you have to kind of slog it through the weeds. As long as they keep it mowed and it's not muddy/snowy, not terrible. But no it isn't ideal, not every place is really pedestrian friendly. I could cross there without a problem safely. Sidewalks probably should be put in since it's a suburban area (albeit very low density). That's just a matter of cost/benefit. As to slowing down traffic to 20 mph so a pedestrian could walk out in the middle of the street blindfolded have a very good chance of not killing itself, no. There's just not enough pedestrians there. There's like none. Plus the vast majority of the few there are would cross safely at the light or in gaps of traffic mid-block. Probably only a person every 10-50 years darts out randomly into the street with total disregard to the traffic.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Paris
8,133 posts, read 6,693,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That is something most of us would expect to happen on a woonerf type street. Just because pedestrians come first doesn't mean pedestrians won't let a car pass, you just can't expect to barrel down these streets in your car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That goes with something I posted upthread:

(Edited post)

It seems to me there would be a few unwritten rules as well, such as pedestrians need to get out of the way for cars ASAP. By law, in some of those countries, the peds could hold up the car traffic as long as they wished.
Yup, it's been my experience. Even though the law might allow pedestrians to hold up car traffic, they usually don't and doing so for an extended moment is seen as rude by most drivers. Legal yes, but rather selfish. After all, sharing goes both ways. As to your earlier comment Katiana, as others have said, such zones are clearly marked. Not only roadsigns, but also the different pavement (bricks or cobblestones instead of asphalt), the speed bumps at the entry and sometimes regularly spaced within the zone and the blurred boundary between the pedestrian and motorist realm. All these things entice drivers to slow down and feel rather unwelcomed, even if they don't recognize the sign at the entry. I find it uncomfortable to drive through them at speeds higher than about 15 mph, even if no one is around. If not, it's likely that the zone is poorly designed.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,560,873 times
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Cobblestone streets definitely slow a vehicle down.
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Old 03-06-2014, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,341,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No.

The magic number for speed as far as pedestrian deaths is concerned is about 15-20 mph. After that, it rises very quickly for almost nothing to almost certain by 40 mph. And I see a crosswalk/signal light. No, it's not a pedestrian-friendly design. no sidewalks so you have to kind of slog it through the weeds. As long as they keep it mowed and it's not muddy/snowy, not terrible. But no it isn't ideal, not every place is really pedestrian friendly. I could cross there without a problem safely. Sidewalks probably should be put in since it's a suburban area (albeit very low density). That's just a matter of cost/benefit. As to slowing down traffic to 20 mph so a pedestrian could walk out in the middle of the street blindfolded have a very good chance of not killing itself, no. There's just not enough pedestrians there. There's like none. Plus the vast majority of the few there are would cross safely at the light or in gaps of traffic mid-block. Probably only a person every 10-50 years darts out randomly into the street with total disregard to the traffic.
I used to work on that corner, and it's full-on modern suburbia. There are office buildings in the area and restaurants. Sometimes workers would have to cross both streets to get to the restaurant diagonally (because driving just didn't make sense), and they would rarely cross at the intersection because traffic was always moving fast and there were NO crosswalks...or sidewalks. You'd have to jog to the center where there was at least a physical barrier you could stand on, and then rush across the other side once traffic was far enough away. However, cars would shoot through (even a right-on-red) really fast, making it hard to make it across a very expansive portion of pavement.

Some places may not be for pedestrians, but when you build a massive part of the metro like this, it's most certainly a problem. To calm traffic at that specific intersection, I would think that a crosswalk would be best, but speed enforcement could at least help people make it across more safely since slower traffic is easier to judge (I'd rather cross with cars going 35 than 45).
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