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Old 02-25-2014, 06:31 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Maybe you have more polite drivers than we do, but i notice in strip mall parking lots, a lot of people speeding, people who decide to speed up to pass a car backing up instead of waiting for 10 seconds, and of course people taking shortcuts, at full speed, across empty parking spaces.**

The reason I think strip mall parking lots are so dangerous is because pedestrians are unexpected. And there is an element of unpredictability when people take any path to the door.


**don't get me wrong, there are a lot of impolite pedestrians too. The other day I almost hit someone as I was backing out because she decided she wanted to walk behind my car when I was around a foot away from another car (in a parking space) when I was backing out. She decided to dash out to get to her car instead of waiting for me to finish. *roll eyes* People are so impatient these days.
Ha, ha, yeah we're polite! No more so than anywhere else, sadly. And yeah, I've seen people speeding, usually when they are driving in the road space between the parking lot and the buildings. While it seems to me as well, that these people are driving at least 60 mph, in reality they are probably going no faster than 25 mph. I read a study once that ambulances seem to be going so fast b/c all the other traffic is stopped, when actually they're usually going the speed limit.

I really don't think pedestrians are unexpected in a strip mall. After all, you have to get out of your car to get to the store.

All it would take is one death, especially of a child, to stop allowing pedestrians in streets.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:36 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
No one's suggesting that you would make the road 10 mph, especially like the one in the streetview that I provided. However, in areas it should be maybe 15 or 20 mph (school zones, residential streets, etc.); the school zone near me is 25mph only when flashing which I think is stupid...because kids can only end up in the road at the beginning and end of the day?!?

Other places could use a lot of improvements to allow people to cross safely. Regardless of how good you taught your kids to cross streets, they're still at the mercy of cars once they're in the road, and I'd rather have a situation that's predictable and clear for both driver and pedestrian.
That is too high a speed limit to allow pedestrians in the street, I am 99% certain. The residential speed limit in my neighborhood is 25 mph. That is what it is in most residential areas in the metro Denver area. The poster who was pushing this idea of people walking in the streets said the traffic accident rate would be "low". If it's you, your spouse, or your kid that gets injured or killed, it's too high, period.

Regarding school zones, in elementary schools, the kids are pretty supervised. No, they're not going out in the road in the middle of the day. High school is a free for all, and middle school is intermediate, though MS kids have no sense, but think they know it all (in general).
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:40 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That is too high a speed limit to allow pedestrians in the street, I am 99% certain. The residential speed limit in my neighborhood is 25 mph. That is what it is in most residential areas in the metro Denver area.
Here's the speed limit on shared streets around the world:

Living street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd assume speed bumps and similar devices, as well as a narrow width also discourage speeding. from the article:

To make this lower speed natural, the street is normally set up so that a car cannot drive in a straight line for significant distances, for example by placing planters at the edge of the street, alternating the side of the street the parking is on, or curving the street itself.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:49 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Most are 20 kph (12 mph), some are 6 mph, 3 mph.

Reading the article, the pedestrians do not always have total access to the road, except in Germany and Poland. The article is a little vague about how many city streets are so designated. It doesn't seem like it's city-wide anywhere.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:52 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Most are 20 kph (12 mph), some are 6 mph, 3 mph.
So none are 15 mph and higher, though many are just above 10 mph.

Quote:
Reading the article, the pedestrians do not always have total access to the road, except in Germany and Poland. The article is a little vague about how many city streets are so designated. It doesn't seem like it's city-wide anywhere.
Not seeing the bolded anywhere in the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It doesn't seem like it's city-wide anywhere.
For the Dutch ones, the wikipedia article claims 2 million people live on woonerf (shared streets). So, 1/8 of the population.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
So none are 15 mph and higher, though many are just above 10 mph.



Not seeing the bolded anywhere in the article.



For the Dutch ones, the wikipedia article claims 2 million people live on woonerf (shared streets). So, 1/8 of the population.
These streets are often built at the same grade as sidewalks, without curbs. Cars are limited to a speed that does not disrupt other uses of the streets (usually defined to be pedestrian speed). To make this lower speed natural, the street is normally set up so that a car cannot drive in a straight line for significant distances, for example by placing planters at the edge of the street, alternating the side of the street the parking is on, or curving the street itself. Other traffic calming measures are also used. However, early methods of traffic calming such as speed humps are now avoided in favor of methods which make slower speeds more natural to drivers, rather than an imposition.

So there are sidewalks, just at the same grade. Some of my statement is by inference, ie, that some countries specifically state the pedestrians have total access and some don't.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,669,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post

All it would take is one death, especially of a child, to stop allowing pedestrians in streets.
You are not kidding, here is what happened in a suburb near my office.

Crosswalk decision sparks ire: Foster City Council decides not to put in stop sign where girl was hit - - San Mateo Daily Journal

*smack my head*

I was in that neighborhood a couple of weeks ago. The street was really dark, it was a near a strip mall and condos/apartments. A logical places where people might decide to walk. Also not far from a park. There was a proposal to make the intersection a 4-way stop, but a traffic engineer said is was unneeded due to traffic volumes. So in order to eliminate "liability" they took out the crosswalk altogether. Ugh.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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In the US I don't think European shared roads would be successful in the same sense. These roads tend to be used as limited vehicle access roads whenever something similar is designed in the US.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,669,595 times
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Here is a study on traffic speeds and risk of pedestrian deaths:
In Crashes, Low Driving Speed Can Cause Serious Injury and Death to Pedestrians, Report Finds - Forbes

Quote:
One of the most significant findings of the report was that the fatality rate goes up substantially as speed increases beyond relatively low speeds. At low speeds, below about 15 miles per hour (m.p.h.), risks are low and increase relatively slowly with small increments in speed. However, as speed increases above 15 m.p.h., small changes in speed yield relatively large increases in risk.

The death rate more than doubles for pedestrians when speed increases from 25 to 35 m.p.h., said Kissinger. “That’s a big number. That’s something we hope all drivers will think about.”
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,523,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Downtown areas and areas where their are a high mix of pedestrians, it makes sense to have speed limits below 15mph.
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