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Old 02-25-2014, 07:37 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
So there are sidewalks, just at the same grade. Some of my statement is by inference, ie, that some countries specifically state the pedestrians have total access and some don't.
Huh, I wouldn't have inferred that. If it doesn't specifically say, it's just no information. It's also wikipedia, so the article could just be incomplete. Also sidewalks without curb doesn't mean the pedestrians don't have legal priority to the street. The Dutch woonerf may have sidewalks, but it says:

A woonerf is a living street where pedestrians and cyclists have legal priority over motorists as implemented in the Netherlands and in Flanders.

Woonerf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this one has a sidewalk but the sign suggests the roads could be used by pedestrians and children playing:

http://imurp.nl/wp-content/uploads/2...a-1400x900.jpg

this one the sidewalk might disappear

http://aslathedirt.files.wordpress.c...onerf_blog.jpg
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Downtown areas and areas where their are a high mix of pedestrians, it makes sense to have speed limits below 15mph.
No it makes sense for there to be enough crosswalks and sidewalks. 15mph is too slow. It is pretty rare for a pedestrian to get hit by a car while on the sidewalk.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No it makes sense for there to be enough crosswalks and sidewalks. 15mph is too slow. It is pretty rare for a pedestrian to get hit by a car while on the sidewalk.
Depends, if there is a high concentrate of pedestrians entering the street at crosswalks, a slower speed makes it easier for driver to be more aware of pedestrians.

Now to be clear I am not saying the speed limit should be under 15mph everywhere.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Depends, if there is a high concentrate of pedestrians entering the street at crosswalks, a slower speed makes it easier for driver to be more aware of pedestrians.

Now to be clear I am not saying the speed limit should be under 15mph everywhere.
Where I am from one should not be in the crosswalk unless you have an stop sign or a light. At 15 miles an hour the only thing you will be aware of is how slow and un-maneuverable your car feels(like it is in an parking lot....). Heck the speed limit near schools is 20.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Where I am from one should not be in the crosswalk unless you have an stop sign or a light. At 15 miles an hour the only thing you will be aware of is how slow and un-maneuverable your car feels(like it is in an parking lot....). Heck the speed limit near schools is 20.
That all depends on where one is driving. In Philadelphia it wouldn't make sense to drive over 15mph through downtown or many of the old neighborhoods, which they all have four way stop signs at each intersection. But a downtown like Phoenix probably isn't a big deal to drive 35 mph in it.

It all depends on how an area is designed, personally I prefer the area with the slower speeds because it makes it easier to pay attention to crowded crosswalks and people on bikes riding on the streets.

Also the moment a car is in motion, even at a couple miles per hour, it is still very easy to maneuver the vehicle.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That all depends on where one is driving. In Philadelphia it wouldn't make sense to drive over 15mph through downtown or many of the old neighborhoods, which they all have four way stop signs at each intersection. But a downtown like Phoenix probably isn't a big deal to drive 35 mph in it.

It all depends on how an area is designed, personally I prefer the area with the slower speeds because it makes it easier to pay attention to crowded crosswalks and people on bikes riding on the streets.

Also the moment a car is in motion, even at a couple miles per hour, it is still very easy to maneuver the vehicle.
There is a point where you are just going too slow and 15MPH is very slow. Chicago's Speed limit is 30MPH unless otherwise posted. Now to be blunt going 30MPG down an alley isn't a good move but on the street traffic usually is the more limiting factor about speed. I can not imagine driving 15MPH unless there is one heck of a crowd or something besides signs slowing me down. I have yet to see a crowed cross walk become much of an issue but frankly if I had my way I would ban bicycles. Less because I hate them and more because they tend to be reckless(doing things like running a light when no traffic is present) and there really isn't enough room on most streets for them to travel without risking being hit by moving traffic on one side or running into an parked car's door on the other.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
And why are you not in favor of lowering speed limits to have very low pedestrian injuries/deaths? What if it was your daughter was trying to cross that mess to get food on lunch? Would you not reduce speeds so she could there safely?
I would have taught my daughter to look both ways before she crosses, and to obey traffic signals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
To make this lower speed natural, the street is normally set up so that a car cannot drive in a straight line for significant distances, for example by placing planters at the edge of the street, alternating the side of the street the parking is on, or curving the street itself.
That sounds so ... suburban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No it makes sense for there to be enough crosswalks and sidewalks. 15mph is too slow. It is pretty rare for a pedestrian to get hit by a car while on the sidewalk.
Agreed; 20-25 mph is plenty slow, depending on how the area is built and used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Depends, if there is a high concentrate of pedestrians entering the street at crosswalks, a slower speed makes it easier for driver to be more aware of pedestrians.
I would assume these pedestrians are smart enough to move with the traffic signals, and not dart out in front of cars, no matter their speed?
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post


I would assume these pedestrians are smart enough to move with the traffic signals, and not dart out in front of cars, no matter their speed?
That assumes drivers stop at the crosswalk. Check out the video linked in this article.


Cyclelicious East Bay hospital injuries prompt pedestrian safety bill
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
That assumes drivers stop at the crosswalk. Check out the video linked in this article.


Cyclelicious East Bay hospital injuries prompt pedestrian safety bill
More like lack of light or crossing guard. For a street that sized, I would expect a stop sign or light.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
More like lack of light or crossing guard. For a street that sized, I would expect a stop sign or light.
Technically in CA drivers are supposed to stop all crosswalks marked or not ( there is an implied crosswalk at any intersection). So the drives were not adhering to the vehicle code.

Same thing happens on my street. It is a 2 lane one way street. I live at the corner. It usually takes 10 cars before I can cross. And at the top of the hill everyone jaywalks because the crosswalk situation is completely illogical. If you followed the crosswalk, from the bus stop, to get to the places across from the bus stop you'd need to go across the street in the wrong direction. Walk down the hill a block to my crosswalk. Where no one stops and the cars are increasing in speed to hit the light. Then walk up the hill a block. Putting you 2 blocks out of the way. It's actually safer to jaywalk at the top if the hill since all cars turning in the short block have a sharp turn to enter, a narrow intersection and another turn within 5 car lengths. They are actually going slow and will see you in their path, and there is a large planter/median in the middle of the turn. I contribute to the jaywalking. It is the smartest choice.
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