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My issue is really when road space is deemed as something only for cars. It is all technically public space, so we need to share and break it up over all of the potential uses: driving, parking, transit, bikes and pedestrians. Although, I might say parking might be better moved off the road in some cases to free up room for other uses.
I agree with all but pedestrians. Pedestrians belong on the sidewalks, or absent a sidewalk, on the shoulder facing traffic. I do not favor lowering speed limits enough to have a "very low" level of pedestrian injuries/deaths.
I agree with all but pedestrians. Pedestrians belong on the sidewalks, or absent a sidewalk, on the shoulder facing traffic. I do not favor lowering speed limits enough to have a "very low" level of pedestrian injuries/deaths.
Pedestrians cross the road, walk on the shoulder of the road to get in their car, in some places they walk in the road (with low traffic and low speeds in residential neighborhoods), etc. At least the first two have to be considered (which you even acknowledged), and it doesn't just automatically happen. Here's what it looks like when you don't account for pedestrians AT ALL:
And why are you not in favor of lowering speed limits to have very low pedestrian injuries/deaths? What if it was your daughter was trying to cross that mess to get food on lunch? Would you not reduce speeds so she could there safely?
Pedestrians cross the road, walk on the shoulder of the road to get in their car, in some places they walk in the road (with low traffic and low speeds in residential neighborhoods), etc. At least the first two have to be considered (which you even acknowledged), and it doesn't just automatically happen. Here's what it looks like when you don't account for pedestrians AT ALL:
And why are you not in favor of lowering speed limits to have very low pedestrian injuries/deaths? What if it was your daughter was trying to cross that mess to get food on lunch? Would you not reduce speeds so she could there safely?
Because the speed limit would have to be about 10 mph for that to happen. People on this forum were carrying on about how dangerous it was to have to walk through a strip-mall parking lot (which really is an example of cars sharing the road with peds) and the average speed in those lots is probably about 5 mph. I taught my kids how to cross the roads properly, including using the crosswalks, even if one wasn't painted on the intersection. I might remind you how long it would take for me to get the 4 1/2 mi to my work if the speed limit were 10 mph and I had to stop at all the lights. It'd probably take an hour! Your buses would have to travel at that speed as well.
Because the speed limit would have to be about 10 mph for that to happen.
That could be workable for residential side streets, I wouldn't mind the street I live on have a 10 mph speed limit, well 15 mph, and possibly go then. Only a couple blocks till I'm a bigger road, so the speed loss is minimal.
I'm sure all those shared streets I'm presented from other countries probably had speed limits of 10 mph, or close to it.
Sharing the local bike path with pedestrians when it's crowded is a pain. Requires frequent stopping to pedestrian speeds, plus you have to watch out for little kids who meander back and forth unpredictably.
That could be workable for residential side streets, I wouldn't mind the street I live on have a 10 mph speed limit, well 15 mph, and possibly go then. Only a couple blocks till I'm a bigger road, so the speed loss is minimal.
I'm sure all those shared streets I'm presented from other countries probably had speed limits of 10 mph, or close to it.
I bet you'd see a lot more accidents at 15 mph than 10. And how many deaths are acceptable "collateral damage"?
I agree with all but pedestrians. Pedestrians belong on the sidewalks, or absent a sidewalk, on the shoulder facing traffic. I do not favor lowering speed limits enough to have a "very low" level of pedestrian injuries/deaths.
The world around sidewalks is a little fuzzy, because sometimes you have to eat into the road for sidewalks.
I am in favor, for busy commercial districts or residential areas, of a speed limit of 20-25 mph. Much safer for the people not in a car, but totally manageable for drivers.
Because the speed limit would have to be about 10 mph for that to happen. People on this forum were carrying on about how dangerous it was to have to walk through a strip-mall parking lot (which really is an example of cars sharing the road with peds) and the average speed in those lots is probably about 5 mph. I taught my kids how to cross the roads properly, including using the crosswalks, even if one wasn't painted on the intersection. I might remind you how long it would take for me to get the 4 1/2 mi to my work if the speed limit were 10 mph and I had to stop at all the lights. It'd probably take an hour! Your buses would have to travel at that speed as well.
"Even I acknowledged", LOL.
Maybe you have more polite drivers than we do, but i notice in strip mall parking lots, a lot of people speeding, people who decide to speed up to pass a car backing up instead of waiting for 10 seconds, and of course people taking shortcuts, at full speed, across empty parking spaces.**
The reason I think strip mall parking lots are so dangerous is because pedestrians are unexpected. And there is an element of unpredictability when people take any path to the door.
**don't get me wrong, there are a lot of impolite pedestrians too. The other day I almost hit someone as I was backing out because she decided she wanted to walk behind my car when I was around a foot away from another car (in a parking space) when I was backing out. She decided to dash out to get to her car instead of waiting for me to finish. *roll eyes* People are so impatient these days.
Because the speed limit would have to be about 10 mph for that to happen. People on this forum were carrying on about how dangerous it was to have to walk through a strip-mall parking lot (which really is an example of cars sharing the road with peds) and the average speed in those lots is probably about 5 mph. I taught my kids how to cross the roads properly, including using the crosswalks, even if one wasn't painted on the intersection. I might remind you how long it would take for me to get the 4 1/2 mi to my work if the speed limit were 10 mph and I had to stop at all the lights. It'd probably take an hour! Your buses would have to travel at that speed as well.
No one's suggesting that you would make the road 10 mph, especially like the one in the streetview that I provided. However, in areas it should be maybe 15 or 20 mph (school zones, residential streets, etc.); the school zone near me is 25mph only when flashing which I think is stupid...because kids can only end up in the road at the beginning and end of the day?!?
Other places could use a lot of improvements to allow people to cross safely. Regardless of how good you taught your kids to cross streets, they're still at the mercy of cars once they're in the road, and I'd rather have a situation that's predictable and clear for both driver and pedestrian.
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Shared Pedestrian Streets and Traffic Calming
