U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
"We" had that happen in Portland? Where? Portland, New Jersey? You like to speak a lot for a city in which you do not live. I would like to see some links to the proof in which the residents from a block away from this proposed building complained about its height and their "apparent reason" of the building being out of scale as to why they complained. That is a complete fabrication.
Why am I shocked, a personal attack from you for no reason.

But I will accept your challenge, and it turns out I was wrong, it was people who were complaining about the height of this building that live across the street from it.

Quote:
During the meeting, Moyer’s team, along with the design commission, heard from a citizen’s group, Park Avenue Concern, comprising residents of Morrison Park Apartments at 623 S.W. Park Ave.

Roslyn Aronson, a 12-year resident of the 60-unit low-income complex, said the building as planned is just too big for the neighborhood.

“It’s very tall for Park Avenue,” she said. “People have different views for urban density to provide housing, but I just think that street, that narrow street, is not suited to that high of a building.”

Aronson, along with fellow resident Marih Alyn-Claire, who spoke to the design commission about the group’s worries, said they’ve felt uninformed throughout the process.

“I’ve never received anything in the mail as the manager,” Aronson said, “and I’m directly across the street on Morrison. I realize that the view of our little building is meaningless to most developers. I realize we aren’t going to be of major importance to developers, to the city planners.”

For Moyer’s Park Avenue tower, height no object | Daily Journal of Commerce

Guess you don't know Portland as well as you think you do....you also must not know that I was an architecture student in Portland and paid attention to everything that was in design and construction phase in Portland during that time frame, and still do today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-06-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,688,776 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Why am I shocked, a personal attack from you for no reason.

But I will accept your challenge, and it turns out I was wrong, it was people who were complaining about the height of this building that live across the street from it.




Guess you don't know Portland as well as you think you do....you also must not know that I was an architecture student in Portland and paid attention to everything that was in design and construction phase in Portland during that time frame, and still do today.
I was not aware of this objection and will certainly admit I was wrong. I was referring to these objections to the buildings when I replied to your post.


Developers: Portland high-rise won


Rivals Taking Aim at Purple Line-Adjacent Century City Tower - Development Battles - Curbed LA



As far as knowing Portland in general, I do feel I know more about Portland than you because I live here and have done so for 35 years. I have seen you indicate that you live here but I do not understand why you are doing that since by your own admission you were a student here for a few years and are living in New Jersey now.

But whatever your reasons, and I really don't care, what does bother me is that you have stated in the Portland forum that you tend to move to Portland and make a living flipping houses. The title of this thread is "Gentrification: be a part of the solution, not the problem."

After living in a Portland neighborhood for 25 years and seeing what the role house flipping does towards gentrification before and after, I think it is understandable what part of gentrification house flipping can play. Let me make it clear. It's not the solution. As someone stated on the Portland forum when you made your announcement you are coming to flip houses, we really don't like hearing that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I was not aware of this objection and will certainly admit I was wrong. I was referring to these objections to the buildings when I replied to your post.


Developers: Portland high-rise won


Rivals Taking Aim at Purple Line-Adjacent Century City Tower - Development Battles - Curbed LA
You have officially confused me, I was talking about the Park Ave West tower going up in Portland.

What are the two links in reference to? One is in Portland, Maine (Which looks like a great addition for that little downtown.) And the other one is a building in LA.

I am not sure what these two links are for in regards, but the Maine one looked cool, so thanks for sharing.


Quote:
As far as knowing Portland in general, I do feel I know more about Portland than you because I live here and have done so for 35 years. I have seen you indicate that you live here but I do not understand why you are doing that since by your own admission you were a student here for a few years and are living in New Jersey now.

But whatever your reasons, and I really don't care, what does bother me is that you have stated in the Portland forum that you tend to move to Portland and make a living flipping houses. The title of this thread is "Gentrification: be a part of the solution, not the problem."

After living in a Portland neighborhood for 25 years and seeing what the role house flipping does towards gentrification before and after, I think it is understandable what part of gentrification house flipping can play. Let me make it clear. It's not the solution. As someone stated on the Portland forum when you made your announcement you are coming to flip houses, we really don't like hearing that.
Actually I went to PSU for about 5 years-ish, I lived in Portland for over 8 years, and I will be moving back to Portland by the end of summer to live there for the rest of my life. In the time I was at PSU, I took a few classes on Portland and Oregon history and made it a point to learn as much as I could about the area I fell in love with. The biggest mistake my wife and I made was moving away from Portland, but we will be happy to return to where we belong.

I am not discrediting your knowledge of Portland, I am sure you know a lot about Portland, but you don't know everything and there are going to be things, especially when it comes to architecture, that I am gonna know more about than you. That is because I read a lot about architecture and what is going on in and around the city in regards to architecture. I have been doing that for the past decade, roughly.

Yes, a buddy and I plan on starting a small development company when I move back to Portland, we do not have wealthy investors and will probably get our start flipping homes because we both have knowledge in renovating homes and I plan on getting my license in real estate when I move back to keep doing what I am doing now. As for what you want to hear, that doesn't really matter to me, as I for one am well aware Portland is growing and changing and there is nothing wrong with buying homes to renovate and sell for a profit to help start a business so that we can eventually move up to building new buildings in Portland. I am a huge fan of the work Beam Development and Guerrilla Development. Also, buying houses to renovate and flip for a profit is a decent solution for us to start our business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,688,776 times
Reputation: 35449
Okay, so I will unconfuse you. I copied the wrong link, it was this one I meant to post. Sorry again. It was late last night when I was doing my cutting and pasting.

Save the Westside

You did not explain your flipping methods on the Portland forum even when someone said it was a sore point and that flipping was not something people liked to hear. You have to realize though, that living here as a student a living here trying to make a living especially in such a competitive business as real estate are two entirely different things. And that was a while ago. Things change very rapidly.

Not that anyone would not wish you well, but as was pointed out in the Portland forum the way things stand today, as the result of gentrification lucrative real estate investments opportunities for the small investor are a thing of the past and only the most wealthy realtors can afford to do what you plan to do. But good luck in trying. Who knows?

I don't know much about architecture but I do know that architecture and real estate are two different things.

As for claiming you live somewhere you don't, as you sometimes do, that's something I don't get. But if you feel you must fine. I just feel it's misleading but then, this is the Internet and I guess people have to take what they read with a grain of salt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Okay, so I will unconfuse you. I copied the wrong link, it was this one I meant to post. Sorry again. It was late last night when I was doing my cutting and pasting.

Save the Westside

You did not explain your flipping methods on the Portland forum even when someone said it was a sore point and that flipping was not something people liked to hear. You have to realize though, that living here as a student a living here trying to make a living especially in such a competitive business as real estate are two entirely different things. And that was a while ago. Things change very rapidly.

Not that anyone would not wish you well, but as was pointed out in the Portland forum the way things stand today, as the result of gentrification lucrative real estate investments opportunities for the small investor are a thing of the past and only the most wealthy realtors can afford to do what you plan to do. But good luck in trying. Who knows?

I don't know much about architecture but I do know that architecture and real estate are two different things.

As for claiming you live somewhere you don't, as you sometimes do, that's something I don't get. But if you feel you must fine. I just feel it's misleading but then, this is the Internet and I guess people have to take what they read with a grain of salt.

I am still not sure what this link is about, is it in reference to something I said or what someone else said?


Yes, I am aware that running a business is different than being a student. Why would I think that it would be the same? Yes, Portland is a fast growing city that has been seeing a lot of changes over the years. You being someone living in an inner city neighborhood in Portland should know that, as I would expect you to know that I also know that.

Seeing that I do know small time investors and small development companies in Portland, I would say one can still get involved in being a developer in Portland.

Yes, architecture and real estate are two different things....I also work in real estate now.

As for claiming I live somewhere I don't? When have I ever done that? Feel free to name a single time I haven't been honest about where I live.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
3,733 posts, read 6,486,956 times
Reputation: 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
So, the people impacted do not even own the property they are in? So there are people who want to create strategy to prevent property owners from making more money? There are people who want to create a strategy to keep areas poor and undesirable?

How about just create a desirable living area (as in entire city, state and country) for everyone, and eliminate all undesirable areas to live?

As for taxes, how about tackle the root of the problem, which is the screwed up way property taxes are? That problem is on the gov, and the people who elect the gov in.
You asked how people were being driven out, and I answered you. Gentrification = higher property values. Higher property values = higher property taxes. People who were once able to afford their taxes, may no longer be able to, which drives them out of their homes, or, in the case of rental properties, forces them to raise rents on people (to make up for higher taxes) who now can no longer afford those rents and may have been calling that area home for many years prior. That drives people out of areas they were once able to afford and call home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
3,733 posts, read 6,486,956 times
Reputation: 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
From what I've seen they have only been driven out of once cheap neighborhoods. That is in X city there still are affordable places to live (SF may be an exception).
Seattle would be another exception. It's outrageous here and only getting worse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 03:00 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,352,650 times
Reputation: 20438
The tax issue is very real in most parts of the country outside of California...

It is very possible for two neighbors in identical homes to pay very different amounts since the bulk of the tax bill is based on purchase price.

The voters of Washington State approved a similar measure called I-747 which was later thrown out by a King County judge...

Property taxes jumped and continue to do so since this important protection was struck down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,403 posts, read 59,899,964 times
Reputation: 54051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
It is very possible for two neighbors in identical homes to pay very different amounts since the bulk of the tax bill is based on purchase price.
Nowhere I've ever lived; tax bills are based upon regular assessments of property value, not purchase price.

Although I must say my current house hasn't been reassessed in the time I've lived here ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,688,776 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjg5 View Post
You asked how people were being driven out, and I answered you. Gentrification = higher property values. Higher property values = higher property taxes. People who were once able to afford their taxes, may no longer be able to, which drives them out of their homes, or, in the case of rental properties, forces them to raise rents on people (to make up for higher taxes) who now can no longer afford those rents and may have been calling that area home for many years prior. That drives people out of areas they were once able to afford and call home.
This is true. I have a landlord who really tries to keep the rents down here in very expensive Portland. He wants to keep his good tenants but he has his expenses. As perfectly good buildings get torn down, pocket parks, yards between structures and other breathing spaces get filled up with large expensive apartment buildings and other multihousing units, expenses increase for him and the other landlords in the area who own apartment buildings and rental houses. Property taxes, utilities, repairs and all other operating all increase. So along with the notices of rent increases, he sends along an itemized written account of these increases to his tenants so we can see where our money is going.

They have to push these increases onto their tenants. Eventually it reaches the point in which a tenant reaches their limit and has to move.

In Portland this has happened very rapidly in our neighborhoods over a relatively short period of time especially as real estate speculators have come into the city and taken advantage of lax building codes, few zoning laws with teeth and indifferent attitudes towards those who live here.

It isn't that people object to new construction per se, it's that this construction crowds the area. There isn't room for giant buildings in neighborhoods with not enough parking or a sewer system that is already taxed and the city is already asking millions to repair. And tearing down something that doesn't need to be torn down just to build something larger to make a profit for a few people is not really gentrification, it's greed. But that's where you get those who used the old argument "You just don't like change" to justify that greed. And they call it "gentrification."

The choices in this city are very limited. People either can move to the suburbs, the farther reaches of East Portland which is not a very good area or out of the city. Many opt to just move away from Portland. Some friends and I were just discussing this recently as to how many other friends we have recently lost from Portland because of this.

The interesting thing is now I see some people who were in the first wave of renters who could afford the rent increases are now moving out because the rents are becoming so high they can no longer afford them and the next wave who can afford the new higher rents are replacing them. Who knows where this will end?

So your comment is spot on as to how people are being driven out by gentrification. I can see it happening where I live all the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top