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Old 02-27-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
There are actually some nice small and medium size cities in North Carolina.
I didn't say there weren't. I never said that urbanists only flock to the big rough cities of the East Coast. Asheville, for example, is quite the urbanist delight.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:13 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Or you can move to a suburb and find the walkability you crave, perhaps packaged with good schools. All of our burbs, or most are working on getting more walkable in parts.

It isn't either or. One of the most hopping downtowns in the Bay Area is walnut creek. A sprawling suburb, but the downtown is rally good. And there are even quite a few housing choices nearby. They need to work on street width and car speed but it is about a B on the walkable scale.
From the views I've seen, the SF penisula suburban downtowns are more similar in style to Long Island and maybe other northeastern ones. Not much like Walnut Creek, except maybe by DC. The one Long Island downtown I can think of I'd consider very walkable does get some people looking for a more urban setting, but mostly young locals who have a job in the suburbs rather than the city. Many of them get a different crowd than your usual urban neighborhood, more family and older and not SWPL in style more just upper-middle class.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hunti...322.51,,0,1.39

Another place people sometimes cross mid block, though the traffic can be too heavy. There are midblock crosswalks where drivers are supposed to yield.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Or you can move to a suburb and find the walkability you crave, perhaps packaged with good schools. All of our burbs, or most are working on getting more walkable in parts.

It isn't either or. One of the most hopping downtowns in the Bay Area is walnut creek. A sprawling suburb, but the downtown is rally good. And there are even quite a few housing choices nearby. They need to work on street width and car speed but it is about a B on the walkable scale.

Ps. My grandmas neighborhood isn't a trailer park. More like a place where people settled at all different points. Some single family homes. A 150 year old church and some newer homes too. But it is a very small community. It is still called a community actually.
This is getting way off base. My point was that urbanism, and all that comes with it, runs strongly along class lines (and to some extent along political lines too). And this preference for the urban lifestyle is to a great degree bound up in class.

Urbanists may want to believe that there are millions of people in the suburbs just aching for walkable suburbs with Post WWII construction, but believe it or not, a lot of people don't give a flying flip about that. You just can't assume that someone bought a McMansion because they had no other choice. A lot of people enjoy that lifestyle. They enjoy the Chevy Suburban. They enjoy the 5,900 square feet. They enjoy driving. They enjoy domestic beer, and bowling, and Wal-Mart. They don't have to be forced into that lifestyle. They wanted it.

Now are there people who don't want that? Sure. That's nearly all of the people in this thread. My point is that if we're going to be honest and examine the broader trend at play, it's exurbs and outer suburbs that are fueling the growth in many metros. And if we're to be even more honest, it's a narrow segment of American society that's demanding the lifestyle (but it seems to believe it's a silent majority), and that population tends to be very uniform in both taste and political outlook.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:21 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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A lot of young people move to urban neighborhoods because that's where other young people live and activities appealing to their age group rather than any strong neighborhood preference. One might want to live in the big city in their 20s but not later in their life.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,650,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
BTW, nobody answered my question (perhaps that's because the answer would be "No"?). Any fiscal conservatives on this Board? Social conservatives? Vote for Bush, McCain or Romney?

Anybody shop at a Wal-Mart in the last month?

Anybody eat at buffet bar in the last month?

Anybody's kids involved in the Scouts?

Anybody drive an SUV (or want to drive one)?

Anyone buy anything from QVC in the last year?
I'll bite. I have been to Walmart this year..maybe 6 weeks ago. I was in Girl Scouts and would have my kids do it if I had any. Buffet this month? No but my parents love golden coral. Oh I did go to a Chinese buffet a few weeks ago with my coworkers.

My dad drove an SUV, but he got sick of the gas prices. He voted for the Bushes and Regan. And also Bill Clinton and Obama. My parents shop at Walmart often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
From the views I've seen, the SF penisula suburban downtowns are more similar in style to Long Island and maybe other northeastern ones. Not much like Walnut Creek, except maybe by DC. The one Long Island downtown I can think of I'd consider very walkable does get some people looking for a more urban setting, but mostly young locals who have a job in the suburbs rather than the city. Many of them get a different crowd than your usual urban neighborhood, more family and older and not SWPL in style more just upper-middle class.
The peninsula cities are a lot older and grew up around the train. They were also thr vacation homes for the rich San Franciscans. The east bay burbs "over the hill" grew up in th 70s or later. The inner east bay places are older.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I'll bite. I have been to Walmart this year..maybe 6 weeks ago. I was in Girl Scouts and would have my kids do it if I had any. Buffet this month? No but my parents love golden coral. Oh I did go to a Chinese buffet a few weeks ago with my coworkers.

My dad drove an SUV, but he got sick of the gas prices. He voted for the Bushes and Regan. And also Bill Clinton and Obama. My parents shop at Walmart often.
I was hoping not to get the "I know somebody who..." responses. I'm more or less concerned about the people participating on these types of Boards. They draw people who are interested in urbanism, obviously, but then those people usually share the same tastes and political views for the most part. I still to this day cannot understand, for example, why rail is an ideological issue. There's no reason for it to be. But if you're the slightest bit critical of any rail project anywhere in the U.S., you're quickly branded as a conservative, Randall O'Toole style rail hater.

Granted, I know some conservatives living in SWPL enclaves (one is a very talented attorney for the Heritage Foundation). But even he shares a lot of overlap with his liberal counterparts in non-political ways.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,650,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I was hoping not to get the "I know somebody who..." responses. I'm more or less concerned about the people participating on these types of Boards. They draw people who are interested in urbanism, obviously, but then those people usually share the same tastes and political views for the most part. I still to this day cannot understand, for example, why rail is an ideological issue. There's no reason for it to be. But if you're the slightest bit critical of any rail project anywhere in the U.S., you're quickly branded as a conservative, Randall O'Toole style rail hater.

Granted, I know some conservatives living in SWPL enclaves (one is a very talented attorney for the Heritage Foundation). But even he shares a lot of overlap with his liberal counterparts in non-political ways.
Transportation should not be a partisan issue. Bothers me to no end. It is all regional but everyone needs transportation and mobility. Not just liberals.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Transportation should not be a partisan issue. Bothers me to no end. It is all regional but everyone needs transportation and mobility. Not just liberals.
It's rail that's a partisan issue. Conservatives will stand behind buses, but usually not rail. Liberals will stand behind rail first, and buses second.

I think the rail/bus debate brings out the ferocity of two political extremes. Most people probably have some views on it but don't feel that strongly one way or the other (just like most people have views on abortion but don't really get activated over the issue). So in that sense, the issue is not as partisan as blogs and internet articles suggest.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:01 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's rail that's a partisan issue. Conservatives will stand behind buses, but usually not rail. Liberals will stand behind rail first, and buses second.
Depends on where. Some conservatives are anti-transit althougher.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's rail that's a partisan issue. Conservatives will stand behind buses, but usually not rail. Liberals will stand behind rail first, and buses second.

I think the rail/bus debate brings out the ferocity of two political extremes. Most people probably have some views on it but don't feel that strongly one way or the other (just like most people have views on abortion but don't really get activated over the issue). So in that sense, the issue is not as partisan as blogs and internet articles suggest.
Conservatives stand behind buses? Usually they just think buses are for poor people and should be routed away from them.

Personally I think rail should be the backbone of a city with buses serving as a secondary system running lines to and from rail stops, and through areas that can't be reached by rail. The whole rail first and buses second doesn't mean buses are less important, like rail, they are a useful tool with providing mass transit for a city.
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