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Personally, as a cusp X/Millennial who is starting his own family, I love being in a semi-walkable area or one where I could drive a very short distance to where I need to. My job is out in the suburbs, and many folks choose to live in the suburbs nearby too. Some decide to live in the city of Seattle.
I find the Seattle area to be a model of small, walkable cores in most suburbs surrounded by light bus networks that always havepeople in them. Then Seattle itself has many little cores surrounding downtown and plenty of bus lines and THANK GOD a light rail line or two are getting built.
Most people my generation want nothing to do with a car. THe ones that do enjoy driving, period. The rest don't see a car as necessarily central to their lives, even with kids, soccer practice, etc. They take the bus. It's perfectly normal for high school students here to take the public bus to school. It's also perfectly normal for them to hop on a bus to go downtown or something, 30 miles away.
It's do-able. It's just closed-minded people who think otherwise. I do admit though that local culture shapes a large portion of attitudes. More rural or car-dependent cities will likely languish behind in terms of being more walkabout, mostly due to inertia, until younger people, fed up with having to waste time and money in traffic jams in their now larger suburbs, fund bus systems.
Really? I know a lot of millenials. I birthed two. They have spouses, boyfriends, friends; my friends have millenial kids and they have the same. I do not know a single millenia who would say they want nothing to do with a car. Maybe it's different here in the "wild west".
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Originally Posted by jade408
I know our American dream is big house, big backyard and 2 cars in the garage. And people think you are crazy if you don't want that.
I guess this is where our vantage points differ. I don't think that these "walkable aspirations" are only for creative class people. I don't think it is a political or class specific issue. No one loses when more people can find affordable places that are in walkable neighborhoods in their price range (assuming that is what they want). But the problem is, it is not really an option for a large segment of the population due to escalating prices or lack of supply or both. It doesn't only have to be available in large cities.
It is a bonafied trend in smaller places too or organizations like Strong Towns and Better Block Project wouldn't exist. These target those normal places, like the ones typified by the towns in "fly over states." I think there is special "creative class hype."
I don't think that's true. The millenials I know who bought houses have modest homes on small lots. This is the norm in metro Denver, a city of tech workers. There are lots of "patio homes" going up right now. They get snapped up quickly.
And they probably bought modest homes on small lots because they were less interested in the big house with a big backyard than previous generations. Small houses on small lots are often a common feature of walkable neighborhoods and urban places.
And they probably bought modest homes on small lots because they were less interested in the big house with a big backyard than previous generations. Small houses on small lots are often a common feature of walkable neighborhoods and urban places.
We've argued (I won't mince words) about this before too. Lot sizes are small in Colorado. There aren't that many big houses with large yards here for people to buy.
You urbanists like to argue out of both sides of your mouths. "Everyone wants a big house and a big yard"; "they were less interested the the big house with a big backyard", and so it goes.
As for buying modest homes, that's what first time homebuyers usually do.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-27-2014 at 01:35 PM..
OMG! I was so shocked when I heard about that place, I was wondering if anyone would live there. :P (I went to high school in Myrtle Beach, and let's just say walkability wasn't on the radar of my peers. Glad to hear the project worked)
Jade, it is working out VERY well. It currently has the best dining and shopping in Myrtle Beach in addition to a very close knit community. We knew everyone that lives in Market Common. The city has also spent millions on one of the best junior sports facilities in the country that are across the street from Market Common. Also tons of concerts and festivals all within a half mile of the beach. If you go back, check it out.
There are also multiple brand new subdivisions out there.
Since we've left in January 2012, the rents there have doubled and they weren't cheap to begin with.
We've argued (I won't mince words) about this before too. Lot sizes are small in Colorado. There aren't that many big houses with large yards here for people to buy.
Colorado has been pretty good at following the model for smaller walkable communities, which is probably why the state has been getting more and more liberal. It is basically the new Oregon.
Colorado has been pretty good at following the model for smaller walkable communities, which is probably why the state has been getting more and more liberal. It is basically the new Oregon.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK! Time to move to Wyoming!
I think the service class is being priced out. I don't think these are creative class only desires. But I do think motivations are different for different people.
A lot of the service class is not priced out. There are plumbers who earn more than a lot of architects. And someone who comes out of high school and trains to become an aviation mechanic can easily be making way more money than someone who went to college, majored in English, and works for the ACLU as a policy analyst. It's true that the top end of the Creative Class earns more (doctors, bankers, Google employees, etc.) but that's not most of the Creative Class. A lot of the Creative Class is younger people holed up in some group house in the Haight.
So you have a number of service class workers who could make the same choices as much of Creative Class, but they just choose not to.
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Originally Posted by jade408
Of course i know the Bay Area is a weird place. But for example whole foods is popular with a wide range of demographics, particularly in Oakland and Berkeley. They run bargain shopping classes in our store.
I'm not talking "demographics" like race and age. There tends to be clear and hard class lines in major cities reflected in shopping trends. If you showed me someone who shops at K-Mart regularly, eats at Golden Corral or any other buffet bar, drives a Chevy Tahoe, prefers Icehouse and bowls at least once a month, then I'd bet the house that person does not live in a hip, walkable urban area. Those are all things seen as low class by most urbanists.
These aren't hard and fast rules. I view SWPLdom much the same way I view sociopathy. That is, it's more or less a constellation of traits that's indicative of SWPLdom/sociopathy. Show me someone who enjoyed torturing animals as a child, can't hold down a job for more than a year, shows no remorse, and doesn't frighten easily, and I'd bet they're a sociopath (but not always). Show me someone who shops at Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, votes for Obama, has a degree from a liberal arts school, and drives a Subaru, and I'd bet they live in a city or walkable streetcar suburb (but not always).
By the way, are there any conservative urbanists on this Board? Not libertarians or even moderates. I'm talking about true fiscal or social conservatives. Like, you voted for George W. Bush twice, John McCain and Mitt Romney.
I'm not talking "demographics" like race and age. There tends to be clear and hard class lines in major cities reflected in shopping trends. If you showed me someone who shops at K-Mart regularly, eats at Golden Corral or any other buffet bar, drives a Chevy Tahoe, prefers Icehouse and bowls at least once a month, then I'd bet the house that person does not live in a hip, walkable urban area. Those are all things seen as low class by most urbanists.
Golden Corral? Never heard of it until this forum. There's not a single one in downstate NY and only one in Massachusetts. I can think of several people from my high school taht don't fit the stereotype who moved to the city.
Quote:
These aren't hard and fast rules. I view SWPLdom much the same way I view sociopathy. That is, it's more or less a constellation of traits that's indicative of SWPLdom/sociopathy. Show me someone who enjoyed torturing animals as a child, can't hold down a job for more than a year, shows no remorse, and doesn't frighten easily, and I'd bet they're a sociopath (but not always). Show me someone who shops at Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, votes for Obama, has a degree from a liberal arts school, and drives a Subaru, and I'd bet they live in a city or walkable streetcar suburb (but not always).
Last sentence could rural and small town New England. Isn't the Subaru the offical car of New England?
By the way, are there any conservative urbanists on this Board? Not libertarians or even moderates. I'm talking about true fiscal or social conservatives. Like, you voted for George W. Bush twice, John McCain and Mitt Romney.
I know of one, though he's not a big of the Republican Party itself, but he was a fan of Rick Perry as a candidate. Somewhat socially conservative and very religious, but does having a gay housemate count against him?
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