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Old 03-02-2014, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,641,017 times
Reputation: 1274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Urbanism has won the vast majority of urban planners. Builders are on board as long as the regulatory environment supports them. The market is demanding for more of it driving huge spikes in cost or real estate in good urban places everywhere.

There are two major battles that will be played out over the next century.

1. Win over the D.O.T.s
2. Crush the NIMBYs

Most cities have a comprehensive plan or are in the process of developing one that calls for "compact and connected" cities, vibrant mixed use districts, walkable neighborhoods and traditional neighborhood design.

But there are two major forces pulling in the opposite direction. They must be won over or crushed for urbanism to truly flourish.

The D.O.T.s are still operating on retrograde 1960s thinking that roads, wider, faster, straighter are the answer to traffic woes. It's so damaging on so many levels. And they are completely entrenched - with a huge amount of political power, vast sums of money to play with and an enormous industry that depends on D.O.T.s continuing their destructive path all donating quantities of money to pols to perpetuate the cycle.

But these people are persuadable. 1. The gravy train is over. There is no longer an endless stream of revenue to support this insanity. Most if not all D.O.T.s are extremely cash strapped or in debt to the tune of billions. They can't afford to maintain the current infrastructure, let alone build new ones. Right now every D.O.T. in the nation is trying to figure how to raise revenue - they're almost universally hitting upon tollways - once anathema to car people. That door is opening up a whole new line of thinking among D.O.T.s for ways to deal with traffic with managed tollways. But more importantly, as a new generation of engineers rises in the ranks, slowly but surely outmoded and outdated 1960s thinking will come to an end. The battle will be won by 2050 or so - unfortunately that gives another 35 years to do significant damage.

NIMBYs on the other hand, are not persuadable. They belong to the class of people who will never get it. The only thing to do with NIMBYs is crush them. NIMBY's only have power because pols pay attention to squeaky wheels. But as urbanism becomes more and more the desired goal and as urbanist become more vocal about these issues and as people become more educated about what makes for a good city and what is a disaster - pols are given political cover - and the answer more and more to NIMBY's will be "that's very nice that you feel that way, but we have the entire city to think about, now go sit down."

D.O.T.s and NIMBYs - two front lines in the war to get our cities back.
Wow, you make this seem like a war! With this type of hostile thinking, I'm sure glad I live out in a very rural area far from urban influences like this.

 
Old 03-02-2014, 01:34 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,727,028 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
NIMBYers can be a problem for good projects BUT they also can stop bad projects and highways.
Notice I didn't make an argument against stopping bad projects. And NIMBY groups aren't particularly helpful or adept at distinguishing a bad project from a good one. As for battle with D.O.T.s on highway projects are better fought at the city level. But when everything is viewed through the lens of the NIMBY groups progress becomes mostly impossible.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 01:35 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,727,028 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
Wow, you make this seem like a war! With this type of hostile thinking, I'm sure glad I live out in a very rural area far from urban influences like this.
A war, a battle, a fight. . . same terminology is used all the time in all sorts of context. . .simmer down.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,094 posts, read 102,857,992 times
Reputation: 33152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Notice I didn't make an argument against stopping bad projects. And NIMBY groups aren't particularly helpful or adept at distinguishing a bad project from a good one. As for battle with D.O.T.s on highway projects are better fought at the city level. But when everything is viewed through the lens of the NIMBY groups progress becomes mostly impossible.
"Good" vs "bad" projects are in the eye of the beholder. I think you can expect a bit of NIMBY (at least out my way) with every proposal.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,448 posts, read 60,028,050 times
Reputation: 54111
Should we start stockpiling weapons?
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,617,031 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
NIMBYs are making our cities completely unaffordable and resist at every turn necessary changes to city code and transportation systems that make urbanism work. They should be crushed. Eventually they will.
Depends on the NIMBY, Jane Jacobs was a NIMBY and without her Robert Moses would have destroyed Manhattan.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,617,031 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
Wow, you make this seem like a war! With this type of hostile thinking, I'm sure glad I live out in a very rural area far from urban influences like this.
It isn't urban areas you need to worry about, it is suburban areas because those areas thrive on consuming rural areas.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:28 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,984 posts, read 42,315,877 times
Reputation: 43469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Notice I didn't make an argument against stopping bad projects. And NIMBY groups aren't particularly helpful or adept at distinguishing a bad project from a good one. As for battle with D.O.T.s on highway projects are better fought at the city level. But when everything is viewed through the lens of the NIMBY groups progress becomes mostly impossible.
But, looking at your threads and posts holistically, there is no such thing as a "bad project" unless it's a road.

And, just to put a cherry on it, you want people outside the urban areas to pay for your "smart planning and design".
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,617,031 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Should we start stockpiling weapons?
You probably should, it's good for the economy.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 02:32 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,727,028 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Should we start stockpiling weapons?
You should be stockpiling common sense.
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