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Old 03-08-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,763,654 times
Reputation: 1616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I just thought it was a cool thing that my FIL did. Maybe irrelevant, but heck, people post irrelevancies all the time. (There is also a pedestrian bridge across the MO at that point. Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge | Omaha Attractions - Things to Do) Bridges and tunnels are part of "urban planning". I don't know of too many pedestrian bridges over highways, BTW.
Yeah they're pretty rare, I'm guessing they'd be more common in densely populated areas or to connect parks.

Here's a few I know of
http://goo.gl/maps/B2bnK
http://goo.gl/maps/muhBh
http://goo.gl/maps/tbDuU

This one's a bit different, there's an effort to build a new downtown for the suburb here, and the bridge is to connect it to a commuter rail station.
http://goo.gl/maps/WkDo5
In a similar situation, Calgary's got a bunch since one of their light rail lines runs in a highway median and the other runs next to one.
http://goo.gl/maps/MPXSh
http://goo.gl/maps/GLNqV
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,383 posts, read 6,011,480 times
Reputation: 3558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I just thought it was a cool thing that my FIL did. Maybe irrelevant, but heck, people post irrelevancies all the time. (There is also a pedestrian bridge across the MO at that point. Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge | Omaha Attractions - Things to Do) Bridges and tunnels are part of "urban planning". I don't know of too many pedestrian bridges over highways, BTW.
That's cool I took you out of context I thought you were illustrating your point. My apologies.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,383 posts, read 6,011,480 times
Reputation: 3558
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I think what Goofy328 is getting at is that highways act as rivers that have to be crossed, where there wasn't a barrier to cross before. Main streets will get bridges (or underpasses, but they're mostly bridges in Youngstown) over the highways, but other streets become dead ends.
Absolutely. It was the same in Akron. In Dayton, those areas next to the expressway on the inner core neighborhoods were some of the worst neighborhoods in town. You also had those bridges going across the Miami river, which were necessary to connect downtown to the rest of the city.

Akron did have some bridges used to face some interesting topographical challenges, because of the height of some areas from the city to the other (canyons that were anywhere from a quarter mile to a half mile deep). In general, the entire Interstate was elevated is many areas. Same in Dayton (but more for development reasons, not because of any actual elevation.

One thing I did notice about Ohio, in comparison to Virginia (where I live now), is that in Ohio expressways were either elevated on a bridge or sunken into the ground "below" street level, sort of how it is in DC. HR is low elevation to begin with, so they have underpasses on regular arterial roads (like for a freight train). But these are such short distances they do not disturb the continuity of the neighborhoods whatsoever, maybe only two or four lanes of traffic.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:29 AM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,195,701 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Yeah they're pretty rare, I'm guessing they'd be more common in densely populated areas or to connect parks.

Here's a few I know of
http://goo.gl/maps/B2bnK
http://goo.gl/maps/muhBh
http://goo.gl/maps/tbDuU

This one's a bit different, there's an effort to build a new downtown for the suburb here, and the bridge is to connect it to a commuter rail station.
http://goo.gl/maps/WkDo5
In a similar situation, Calgary's got a bunch since one of their light rail lines runs in a highway median and the other runs next to one.
http://goo.gl/maps/MPXSh
http://goo.gl/maps/GLNqV
Three within 2 miles in my small town and I can think of at least 10 in the Denver metro area.
All, or most, to residential neighborhoods cut off by highways.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,383 posts, read 6,011,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Usually, these roads are planned (believe it or not, they ARE planned) with a few bridges or underpasses so surface traffic can still go through. Here in metro Denver, virtually all urban streets have sidewalks, and there are bike trails all over, so you may have to go a little out of the way, but it's doable.
Good point. We may be talking about the difference between good, thorough, urban development in smart communities in cities like Denver, Portland, and Seattle to the absent minded build out of expressways long after the city core was developed. In too many cases cities were forced to dislocate neighborhoods and use eminent domain because there were not plans to use expressways to facilitate traffic through and around the city. Without a well planned expressway, you might end up going directly through a city, instead of around one. Plus when a city was incorporated in like, 1830, or whatever when no one was even thinking about an automobile, let alone expressways some interesting things happen when you try to put them in, say in the 60s or even in the 80s (yeah Akron was pretty late to the party). I remember when the Innerbelt was built out, even now, it still does not serve it's true purpose, but enough damage has been done and I cannot see anything new happening there unless there is a huge shift in population.

And what has typically happened is that there are no sidewalks in suburban communities, little or no bus service, etc. and the walk-ability of those areas is lost. If suburban Denver is urban (which is not always the case of a suburban area in some other city), with high rises, or mid rise development, etc. there is more of an incentive to build sidewalks there. Ohio has cities with a high density in the core that thins out to next to nothing in suburbia (a transition from 5,000 per square mile to like, 1,000 or even 500), so things change dramatically. Denver is probably far ahead of the curve in that respect.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:04 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
Good point. We may be talking about the difference between good, thorough, urban development in smart communities in cities like Denver, Portland, and Seattle to the absent minded build out of expressways long after the city core was developed. In too many cases cities were forced to dislocate neighborhoods and use eminent domain because there were not plans to use expressways to facilitate traffic through and around the city. Without a well planned expressway, you might end up going directly through a city, instead of around one. Plus when a city was incorporated in like, 1830, or whatever when no one was even thinking about an automobile, let alone expressways some interesting things happen when you try to put them in, say in the 60s or even in the 80s (yeah Akron was pretty late to the party). I remember when the Innerbelt was built out, even now, it still does not serve it's true purpose, but enough damage has been done and I cannot see anything new happening there unless there is a huge shift in population.

And what has typically happened is that there are no sidewalks in suburban communities, little or no bus service, etc. and the walk-ability of those areas is lost. If suburban Denver is urban (which is not always the case of a suburban area in some other city), with high rises, or mid rise development, etc. there is more of an incentive to build sidewalks there. Ohio has cities with a high density in the core that thins out to next to nothing in suburbia (a transition from 5,000 per square mile to like, 1,000 or even 500), so things change dramatically. Denver is probably far ahead of the curve in that respect.
My experience, though some disagree with me, is that suburbs in the northeast and west to maybe Ohio/Indiana or so, do not as a rule have sidewalks. Farther west, at least in the areas I've been in (Chicago, Minneapolis, Omaha) and into the western US, virtually all urban areas have sidewalks, at least on one side of the street. I have no experience with the southeastern US. What I saw of Dallas and Phoenix had sidewalks.

Suburban Denver is a little bit of everything, though the very low density areas are few and on the periphery.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,383 posts, read 6,011,480 times
Reputation: 3558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My experience, though some disagree with me, is that suburbs in the northeast and west to maybe Ohio/Indiana or so, do not as a rule have sidewalks. Farther west, at least in the areas I've been in (Chicago, Minneapolis, Omaha) and into the western US, virtually all urban areas have sidewalks, at least on one side of the street. I have no experience with the southeastern US. What I saw of Dallas and Phoenix had sidewalks.

Suburban Denver is a little bit of everything, though the very low density areas are few and on the periphery.
That sounds about right. The NIMBY attitude is pretty strong in the Midwest, which is part of it; no sidewalks those are taxes you might not have to pay, plus you supposedly keep people from passing through, which is not always the case (I always passed through; if they really didn't want people out there they should not have allowed a bus line through or near there).
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,686,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Yeah, it really is the best of both worlds IMO. Where I currently live isn't particularly dense but it is a city neighborhood with walkable amenities and it's extremely quiet.
I live on a quiet tree lined residential block and Main Street is a few blocks away. A good situation in my book. We need a new word besides city or urban. For many of us the appeal of the city is mostly wrapped up in transportation options, convenience and access in a people friendly scale. And people keep getting caught up in their definition or perception of a city in terms of building form or density or "problems."
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,686,954 times
Reputation: 26671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My experience, though some disagree with me, is that suburbs in the northeast and west to maybe Ohio/Indiana or so, do not as a rule have sidewalks. Farther west, at least in the areas I've been in (Chicago, Minneapolis, Omaha) and into the western US, virtually all urban areas have sidewalks, at least on one side of the street. I have no experience with the southeastern US. What I saw of Dallas and Phoenix had sidewalks.

Suburban Denver is a little bit of everything, though the very low density areas are few and on the periphery.
The south is generally a sidewalk free zone too. I was weirded out when I started connecting the dots on that.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:51 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My experience, though some disagree with me, is that suburbs in the northeast and west to maybe Ohio/Indiana or so, do not as a rule have sidewalks. Farther west, at least in the areas I've been in (Chicago, Minneapolis, Omaha) and into the western US, virtually all urban areas have sidewalks, at least on one side of the street. I have no experience with the southeastern US. What I saw of Dallas and Phoenix had sidewalks.
Suburban Denver is a little bit of everything, though the very low density areas are few and on the periphery.[/quote]

And I would disagree. There are plenty of sidewalkless suburbs in the Northeast, but there are plenty of suburbs with sidewalks in the Northeast. From what I remember, most of your experience of Northeastern suburbs are of Pittsburgh or upstate New York, which aren't reflective of the entire Northeast. (Over half the population is concentrated near the coast, which is built up differently in many ways.) About half of Long Island has sidewalks nearly everywhere, and in the rest the usual is that sidewalks are only omitted on smaller residential streets. Same is true in many north Jersey suburbs, and Philly ones (from what kidphilly said). Boston is a mix, but again further out the smallest streets skip sidewalks. The Pittsburgh pattern of even pre-World War II suburbs lacking sidewalks sounds odd to me, I haven't seen much of that.

Of the southeastern US, I have little personal experience, but from what I've heard and seen from the internet, sidewalks were much less common there than any other part of the US. Even many city propers have streets that lack sidewalks.
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