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Old 03-30-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
It is ironic that without the bicyclists we wouldn't have had the road infrastructure that made car travel speedy and practical, and now it is hard to get the cars to share the roads with bikes.
Two-way street.

A larger percentage of cyclists do not belong on the roads than drivers, which is a good thing because a cyclist can't do as much harm as a driver can. Although they still can, like the high profile case where the cyclists killed a pedestrian and then posted a eulogy to his helmet for keeping him safe while he killed the pedestrian. Classy gentleman, and frankly he was by most accounts one of the more law abiding ones, just picked up too much speed, wasn't paying attention, and outran his ability to ride.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:53 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Two-way street.

A larger percentage of cyclists do not belong on the roads than drivers, which is a good thing because a cyclist can't do as much harm as a driver can.
Why?
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12646
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why?
Because there some basic "roads of the road" that need to be followed. I'm not a VC that thinks cyclists should blindly follow the road rules and behave exactly like a car, but there's some basics that just do need to followed. Ride in a straight line. Do not weave around in three lanes of traffic. Going the wrong way. I'm come very close to squishing ninja salmon (wrong-way riders with no lights) at night. They've very hard to see and you're frankly NOT looking at the gutter line to your right for fast(ish) moving vehicles. Bicycle messenger wanna-bes that blow throw sidewalks dodging between pedestrians, etc. It's extraordinarily rare to see a car driving on the wrong side of the road blow throw a light and dodge in between pedestrians in a sidewalk. That's pretty much a daily occurrence if you're in a major city. It isn't the majority of cyclists, but it's a much much much larger minority. Sort of like how motorcyclists (which I am as well) whinge about cars not seeing them. Legitimate point for sure. Drivers need to look. Most accidents, however, are easily preventable by not riding like a tard. Yeah, the car turned left in front of you because it misjudged your speed. Motorcyclists need to be aware how difficult it is for someone to judge the speed of a motorcycle going 90 mph in a 30 mph zone.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12646
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why?
Because there some basic "roads of the road" that need to be followed. I'm not a VC that thinks cyclists should blindly follow the road rules and behave exactly like a car, but there's some basics that just do need to followed. Ride in a straight line. Do not weave around in three lanes of traffic. Going the wrong way. I'm come very close to squishing ninja salmon (wrong-way riders with no lights) at night. They've very hard to see and you're frankly NOT looking at the gutter line to your right for fast(ish) moving vehicles. Bicycle messenger wanna-bes that blow throw sidewalks dodging between pedestrians, etc. It's extraordinarily rare to see a car driving on the wrong side of the road blow throw a light and dodge in between pedestrians in a sidewalk. That's pretty much a daily occurrence if you're in a major city. It isn't the majority of cyclists, but it's a much much much larger minority. Sort of like how motorcyclists (which I am as well) whinge about cars not seeing them. Legitimate point for sure. Drivers need to look. Most accidents, however, are easily preventable by not riding like a tard. Yeah, the car turned left in front of you because it misjudged your speed. Motorcyclists need to be aware how difficult it is for someone to judge the speed of a motorcycle going 90 mph in a 30 mph zone.

Motorcycle/bicycle just brings out a certain about of Johnny in people. You take someone who is otherwise a law abiding driver and put them on a motorcycle, and I guarantee once they get comfortable on it, they ride more recklessly than they drive.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,674,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Two-way street.

A larger percentage of cyclists do not belong on the roads than drivers, which is a good thing because a cyclist can't do as much harm as a driver can. Although they still can, like the high profile case where the cyclists killed a pedestrian and then posted a eulogy to his helmet for keeping him safe while he killed the pedestrian. Classy gentleman, and frankly he was by most accounts one of the more law abiding ones, just picked up too much speed, wasn't paying attention, and outran his ability to ride.
That guy definitely was a jerk. Last week a cyclist hit a pedestrian on a bike/ped trail in San Jose and an elderly woman died of a brain injury. I also have a friend of a friend who lost her father in a similar incident where a cyclist was speeding on a busy sidewalk in a commercial district.

There are definitely rules of the road that all road users need to follow. And i think the best bike lane is the one physically separated from cars, but it is hard to even convince some people to give up 5 feet for a bike lane.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:45 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Some roads don't have the five feet to spare, and I think a bike lane needs more than that, probably more like 10'. Also, some bicyclists don't want a bike lane, they think they should ride in traffic. (I used to be married to a hard core bicyclist.) I agree with you, jade that separation is better.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,674,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Some roads don't have the five feet to spare, and I think a bike lane needs more than that, probably more like 10'. Also, some bicyclists don't want a bike lane, they think they should ride in traffic. (I used to be married to a hard core bicyclist.) I agree with you, jade that separation is better.
Nothing personal, but I think those bicyclists who don't want a lane should butt out. 90% of the roads meet their criteria. We should make 1% of the roads friendly for those people who are bike curious! so they can be encouraged to ride too. There are a lot of people on the sidelines who would jump on two wheels in a separated lane. And even if a small percentage of people convert to bike trips, the ripple effect of less congestion, better air quality, and better health outcomes is totally worth it. I read an article somewhere that had a multiplier for each mile of bike lanes lead to an x reduction in health care costs. That sounds pretty good to me. No one loses if health care costs are cheaper....
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:42 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,565,237 times
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The relative lack of a national standard is part of a problem. Our road rules and bike infrastructure are a hodgepodge that varies city by city. Imagine if roads for cars were run like that: in city X you run on the left side of the road, in city Y on the right. In city A a stop sign is a red octagon, in city B it's a yellow triangle. In one part of a city you drive on the sidewalk, in another you drive in the roadway. No wonder cyclists have trouble following the rules--the rules aren't consistent and vary not just city by city but road by road!
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,802 posts, read 5,464,308 times
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I see enough bike riders trying to ride in regular traffic down here in LA, even going so far as to utilize left-turn lanes, which is beyond asinine; I've also seen stories on '60 Minutes' regarding bike messengers in NYC, which is downright dangerous, but that's the way it goes......
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:21 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv101 View Post
I see enough bike riders trying to ride in regular traffic down here in LA, even going so far as to utilize left-turn lanes, which is beyond asinine; I've also seen stories on '60 Minutes' regarding bike messengers in NYC, which is downright dangerous, but that's the way it goes......
No, it's not, in many situations it's the best way to turn left. Cross the lane of parellel traffic when clear, then wait in the left turn lane where you have to worry about oncoming traffic. Have you actually bicycled to judge how dangerous it is?
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