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Old 03-10-2014, 10:28 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
But even delivery via delivery truck is more efficient in higher-density residential areas vs. car-centric sprawl, which is part of why everyone has to pack stuff home from the mall now, instead of stores having delivery service--or even delivery as prosaic as milk trucks! The cost is shifted, again, to the consumer/taxpayer.
No, it is not more efficient to have stuff delivered. There is the cost of delivery (labor +gas + insurance) for a car owner the cost is just gas as all the other costs associated with a car or a truck remain the same.

There are issues of range. I live in a large city and restaurants will only deliver so far. I used to hop the expressway to get a pizza I liked because I was out of range of delivery. I have also had this issue crop up when buying other items. They will only go so far.

There is the time you have to be present for said item to be delivered. If it is mailed then issues can crop up if you need to be present to receive it and even if you don't stuff can get damaged or stolen if you are not present to bring the item in. Fed Ex has taken to hiding stuff outdoors where I need to put up an search to find it and hope it doesn't get rained on.

As for milk, I can go to the store at any time and buy what ever milk I want provided it is in stock. The reason why people had milk delivered was because people lacked refrigeration and without a quick way to travel as far as you want, when ever you want, having it delivered made sense. Along with having the ice-man to deliver ice for your icebox. The diaper service pick up your child's soiled diapers esp. as you might not have an automatic washing machine and pampers have not been invented yet. Technology put an end to all of them.

Without refrigeration the milk would not last long and so you needed a fresh supply daily and having it delivered was one less trip out your busy day. Now if I want cream for a cake, I can get in my car and pick it up vs. needing to contact an milk company and make arrangements. If I run out, I don't have to ask my neighbor, I can drive to the store and get some more. That freedom is what put an end to the milk man. Heck I can even decide to bake a cake at 3a.m. if I want to all I need is an 24 hour store(which there are many around me) and away I go.

Last edited by chirack; 03-10-2014 at 10:59 PM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,503,405 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Then let the shippers pay for the roads instead of shifting the burden to the taxpayer, the way they pay for railroad shipping (a private-sector solution.) Trains are far better for long-distance shipping, local shipping is the strong suit of trucks. But even delivery via delivery truck is more efficient in higher-density residential areas vs. car-centric sprawl, which is part of why everyone has to pack stuff home from the mall now, instead of stores having delivery service--or even delivery as prosaic as milk trucks! The cost is shifted, again, to the consumer/taxpayer.
No industry is, by its very nature, more intertwined with, or vulnerable to interference by the public sector than are the freight railroads. But the times when they gained more than they lost are long behind us.

The modern freight rail system is no longer geared to handle small- or even medium-sized shipments. Occasional direct pickup and delivery of even a single carload (on a one-time basis) can cost hundreds of dollars. So shipments are concentrated on a smaller amount of trackage, and with a much smaller, but much more productive labor force,
.
And take a look at the freight system of 50-60 years ago, when tugs and"car floats" delivered those shipments to piers on Manhattan's lower West Side -- not to mention even bigger industrial complexes like Brooklyn's Bush Terminal (which, BTW, survives as a warehouse and light-manufacturing hub). Technology was the dominant factor in rendering that system obsolete, but the grabby hands of politicians seeking an ever-growing tax bite for their schemes accelerated the process, and today, the residents of New York, New Jersey and other states face huge property tax bills due to the loss of enterprises their political lackeys drove away.

https://www.google.com/search?q=car+...%3B1600%3B1004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Te..._Industry_City

Most of the inbound freight is still there, but it goes to an intermodal terminal and makes the rest of the journey on the highway -- thus rewarding short sight (and the kind of "greed" that revolves around political hacks grabbing other peoples' money -- as opposed to the "greed" of a successful entrepreneur trying to keep its own) with a one-two punch.

"The state is the great fiction by which everyone tries to have his way -- at the expense of everybody else." (Frederic Bastiat)
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No, it is not more efficient to have stuff delivered. There is the cost of delivery (labor +gas + insurance) for a car owner the cost is just gas as all the other costs associated with a car or a truck remain the same.

There are issues of range. I live in a large city and restaurants will only deliver so far. I used to hop the expressway to get a pizza I liked because I was out of range of delivery. I have also had this issue crop up when buying other items. They will only go so far.

There is the time you have to be present for said item to be delivered. If it is mailed then issues can crop up if you need to be present to receive it and even if you don't stuff can get damaged or stolen if you are not present to bring the item in. Fed Ex has taken to hiding stuff outdoors where I need to put up an search to find it and hope it doesn't get rained on.
Even these models have shifted. Fedex can deliver to one of its stores, instead of your home.

Amazon has lockers: Amazon's Lockers Move Frontlines of Retail War to Back of 7-Eleven | Wired Business | Wired.com

There is eBay Now:
eBay Is Launching A Same-Day Shipping Service Called eBay Now | TechCrunch
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
No industry is, by its very nature, more intertwined with, or vulnerable to interference by the public sector than are the freight railroads. But the times when they gained more than they lost are long behind us.

The modern freight rail system is no longer geared to handle small- or even medium-sized shipments. Occasional direct pickup and delivery of even a single carload (on a one-time basis) can cost hundreds of dollars. So shipments are concentrated on a smaller amount of trackage, and with a much smaller, but much more productive labor force,
.
And take a look at the freight system of 50-60 years ago, when tugs and"car floats" delivered those shipments to piers on Manhattan's lower West Side -- not to mention even bigger industrial complexes like Brooklyn's Bush Terminal (which, BTW, survives as a warehouse and light-manufacturing hub). Technology was the dominant factor in rendering that system obsolete, but the grabby hands of politicians seeking an ever-growing tax bite for their schemes accelerated the process, and today, the residents of New York, New Jersey and other states face huge property tax bills due to the loss of enterprises their political lackeys drove away.

https://www.google.com/search?q=car+...%3B1600%3B1004

Bush Terminal

Most of the inbound freight is still there, but it goes to an intermodal terminal and makes the rest of the journey on the highway -- thus rewarding short sight (and the kind of "greed" that revolves around political hacks grabbing other peoples' money -- as opposed to the "greed" of a successful entrepreneur trying to keep its own) with a one-two punch.

"The state is the great fiction by which everyone tries to have his way -- at the expense of everybody else." (Frederic Bastiat)
Look like there is a movement to make the last mile travel via bike in Europe.
More than 50% of city freight could shift from truck to bike : TreeHugger
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:12 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,558,119 times
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I think I missed the part where I said I wanted to ban trucks.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:16 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Even these models have shifted. Fedex can deliver to one of its stores, instead of your home.

Amazon has lockers: Amazon's Lockers Move Frontlines of Retail War to Back of 7-Eleven | Wired Business | Wired.com

There is eBay Now:
eBay Is Launching A Same-Day Shipping Service Called eBay Now | TechCrunch
Not quite. There are no 7-Elevens near me(and probably never will be because they tend to be a suburban thing). If I were to use the service, I would have to DRIVE!

As for e-bay now, they have limited hours(9a.m-9p.m.) and must be purchased 30mins before store closes. Limited selection(only stores in SF) and the cost is $5.00.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Not quite. There are no 7-Elevens near me(and probably never will be because they tend to be a suburban thing). If I were to use the service, I would have to DRIVE!
.
We have a lot of 7-11s. There is one on my main street (with a gas station). And a stand alone one about 4 blocks from that one (stand alone). 2 new ones have opened in the nearby cities, right across from busy bus stops.

As for those lockers, I don't pay a lot of attention to them, but I imagine they have expanded. And both UPS and Fedex also offer deliver to store. I have a UPS store in walking distance, and a FedEx store about 1 mile away.

These types of programs could easily expand.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:36 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
We have a lot of 7-11s. There is one on my main street (with a gas station). And a stand alone one about 4 blocks from that one (stand alone). 2 new ones have opened in the nearby cities, right across from busy bus stops.

As for those lockers, I don't pay a lot of attention to them, but I imagine they have expanded. And both UPS and Fedex also offer deliver to store. I have a UPS store in walking distance, and a FedEx store about 1 mile away.

These types of programs could easily expand.
The only 7-11 in Chicago are in/near downtown, near north side, near west side, near south side and the burbs. The only FedEx and UPS stores are no where near walking distance from me. I would either have to drive(fastest, safest) or ride the bus(risk getting jumped at the stop with the item, ect..). I think the market for this is going to be limited.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,503,405 times
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Just to provide a friendly point of information, before there was UPS or FedEx, there were these guys:

Railway Express Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

REA, in turn, grew out of the legacies of predecessors like Wells Fargo, Adams Express and Southern Express. It was one of the few products of thw World War I-era Unied States Railway Administration (USRA) which the railroads decided to keep -- a consortium in which all the major passenger roads held a stake, but it never seemed to live up to its potential.

And the local outlets of the "package express" of an earlier time left a lot to be desired. In most blue-collar urban neighborhoods, they operated in what New Yorkers called "candy stores" -- like the one depicted in the 1960 film Murder, Inc. So it's no coincidence that UPS had its origins in the Intermountain West, where local corruption was smallest.

The point I seek to emphasize here is merely that the small-package business was merely a "neglected stepchild" of an economy revolving around large volume -- until the suburban boom began after World War II. So it might be viewed as a "chicken or the egg" question.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-11-2014 at 12:13 AM..
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:22 AM
 
395 posts, read 450,611 times
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The US definitely has some disadvantages with respect to mass transit, mostly due to the sheer size of the country, and the age of existing infrastructure. If you look at mass transit in Russia or China, it really isn't any better, overall, for similar reasons.

Most European countries and many Asian countries now, have excellent mass transit, although in some countries, there is still a cost barrier to low income people using the more comfortable subways or trains instead of the slower, less comfortable buses. In much of Europe, people bike or walk to the train station, park their bike, ride the train into the city, then pick up a city bike there to take to their office, or they walk or take a bus. It's much more complicated in the US, so it only makes sense people resist it.
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