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Old 04-02-2014, 09:51 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I am sure they weren't auto-centric when they were first created, no one is arguing that fact, but today they are nothing more than fountains and statues in the middle of the road in downtown with cars driving around them instead of people walking around them.

Pioneer Courthouse Square wasn't even built until the 80s yet it is a much more pedestrian focused town square than the two examples you gave. Would you want a town square occupied by cars or pedestrians?
Seriously? How much time have you spent in these Pennsylvania towns? These are downtown shopping and restaurant areas.

So Portland's square was built in the 80s as a faux "town center"?
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:54 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,856,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So does this mean no one rides the El outside of rush hour because cars are faster? Also if you commute to work downtown, chances are most people commute during rush hour.
The people who ride outside of rush are people who don't have cars. It could be due to age(too young), too old, disability, low income or what ever. There are a few that choose a car free life-style but they are an minority and even a large part of that minority would own cars if north side living while working downtown were a little more conducive to car ownership.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Seriously? How much time have you spent in these Pennsylvania towns? These are downtown shopping and restaurant areas.

So Portland's square was built in the 80s as a faux "town center"?
Pioneer Courthouse Square is more of a town square than these two places, seriously look at them on Google Maps, surrounded by roads with cars driving around them. Not really pedestrian friendly town squares.

Most downtowns are restaurant and shopping areas, we aren't talking about that, we are talking about specifically the square itself.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
The people who ride outside of rush are people who don't have cars. It could be due to age(too young), too old, disability, low income or what ever. There are a few that choose a car free life-style but they are an minority and even a large part of that minority would own cars if north side living while working downtown were a little more conducive to car ownership.
Whenever I road the El, it seemed to be full of your typical urban person, not just the types of people you listed. Chicago has over 730K daily ridership for just the El, which is pretty good for a system that doesn't reach much of the Southside.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,650,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Cause there are far fewer sexual assaults and robberies or pick pocketing happening to people inside of cars and please people do get killed by transit accidents too.
Death by transit accidents is a lot less frequent than death by car. It should be a public health crisis to encourage us to make safer roads.

1.5 Million Lives Lost: The Global Toll of Motor Vehicles Each Year | Streetsblog USA
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,327,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
The same amount that would have been pumped into roads. Busses don't levitate down the street and both cars, trucks and busses need roads. The middle class has spent their own money not the government. It sure as heck would be cheaper for the tax payer but there would be other costs associated with increased traffic and the need to make more trips. The reason why it would be cheaper is simple no busses and no bus drivers to pay. No trains to buy and no track to maintain.

Unless that bus and all the busses you need to get from your place to where you work run 24/7 you are restricted.
So, the government has spent no money on roads or driving? It's all been private investment? Your argument is leaving out a lot of considerations. Over the last 100 years, America has funded the most massive low density, sprawling infrastructure around personal automobiles that has ever been created. Taxes, subsidies, zoning and private investment were all needed on a massive scale to accomplish it. It will likely be studied for the next 1000 years IMO.

Saying buses use roads is, again, disingenuous IMO. Yes, buses use roads, but not a majority of them. Roads are for personal drivers first and foremost. And with most transit systems drastically underfunded, poor bus systems are all that exist in most places (lucky for the transit riders). That's why in Richmond it's almost impossible to get funding for ONE dedicated bus lane...ONE in the whole city.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:52 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Pioneer Courthouse Square is more of a town square than these two places, seriously look at them on Google Maps, surrounded by roads with cars driving around them. Not really pedestrian friendly town squares.

Most downtowns are restaurant and shopping areas, we aren't talking about that, we are talking about specifically the square itself.
Oh, are we now? I don't know why you want to disparage these places so. Many small towns in the eastern US, particularly PA and NY are laid out with these "squares" in the town center, around which flows commercial life. Sounds like just what you urbanists want.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, are we now? I don't know why you want to disparage these places so. Many small towns in the eastern US, particularly PA and NY are laid out with these "squares" in the town center, around which flows commercial life. Sounds like just what you urbanists want.
They seem like nice towns, but they are just fountains and statues in the middle of a road, not really anything special.

I am curious what your definition of "town square" is because I am not seeing anything special about these two places that can't be found in just about any downtown.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:00 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
They seem like nice towns, but they are just fountains and statues in the middle of a road, not really anything special.

I am curious what your definition of "town square" is because I am not seeing anything special about these two places that can't be found in just about any downtown.
I'm ending this hijack. You don't understand; you don't want to understand; you just want to make fun of the fountains. Go ahead and think that Portland is the greatest city in the US.

Last edited by nei; 04-03-2014 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I'm done. You just continue to make fun of these fountains.
What?? I am not making fun of them, they look nice, but they just sit in the middle of the road with traffic driving around them, nothing special about that. Not really a place for people to gather unless you stop traffic by blocking off the roads that connect to these fountains and statues.
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