U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-12-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
If the streetcar connection is more convenient than the metro stops, they may consider doing the park and ride. From the maps, it looks like it is designed in part to serve locations in between Metro stops. You can drive to a park-and-ride, but you generally only have your feet on the other end.
I was talking about people living in the dense, urban areas where the streetcar is supposed to run. How many of those residents have such a strong aversion to riding a bus that they will gladly hand over $20 a day to a parking garage to spare themselves the ignominy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-15-2015, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Washington, DC is as Black as Atlanta and the bus there doesn't have any stigma at all. It is true that the rail ridership is whiter, but it's also true that Metrorail serves the metro area at large, which is whiter than the city proper. If you go to any popular core neighborhood in the city, you will often see buses that are 80-85% White.

I just don't see the bus stigma in the real world. I think it's probably more of an issue in places where driving is a very real alternative to transit. But for many people in denser cities, it's not, which means they need to quickly get over any bus/rail snobbery. Land use and job concentration drive transit, not preferences.
I do. People are always suprised when I mention I arrived by bus. We have "fancy" commuter buses run by the regular transit agency that are coaches with wifi. People ask why I do not take the train to work. It is a no brainier: the odds of getting a seat are high and there is wifi.

We think only poor people ride the bus and no one would choose to ride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,729,443 times
Reputation: 32304
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But the bus seems to have more of that stigma in sprawling metropolises like Atlanta where the average middle class resident owns a car..........
Is there someplace in the United States besides New York City where the average middle class resident doesn't own a car?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2015, 04:01 AM
 
12,291 posts, read 15,187,836 times
Reputation: 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Is it really that the buses are horrible? Or is it more the case that sprawling, low density cities rely almost exclusively on buses, thereby reinforcing the association between buses and poor transit quality?
In such cities buses are designed to be unattractive. They run infrequently, routing circuitous, in many cases uncomfortable. Often the drivers are discourteous. Finally they require cash fare, at a time few carry cash.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2015, 04:06 AM
 
12,291 posts, read 15,187,836 times
Reputation: 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Is there someplace in the United States besides New York City where the average middle class resident doesn't own a car?
New York is unique. No other US city has a majority that don't own one. But look at this list.
List of U.S. cities with most households without a car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most have good transit. The big exception: Detroit. The motor city, with rotten transit service? I guess many don't work, have no need to drive there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2015, 09:49 PM
 
252 posts, read 262,157 times
Reputation: 263
Why people don't use mass transit?

1) They don't want to be around stinky people with bedbugs and risk having their pockets picked.

2) They don't want to wait at a bus stop for 15 minutes just to spend one hour on a bus to go 10 or 12 miles to Downtown. When my office was Downtown, I used to take the bus one way and ride back on a bike trail (about a 30 mile hike) a couple of times a week, so I am well aware of how long it takes to get anywhere with a bus.

Last edited by WheresTheBeef; 03-18-2015 at 09:58 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2015, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,729,443 times
Reputation: 32304
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
New York is unique. No other US city has a majority that don't own one. But look at this list.
List of U.S. cities with most households without a car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most have good transit. The big exception: Detroit. The motor city, with rotten transit service? I guess many don't work, have no need to drive there.
Thanks for the interesting link. All in all, the percentage of households without a car is staggeringly high. It makes one wonder how many of those households are just completely destitute and how many could afford a car if they wanted to have one, but have chosen of their own free will to forego car ownership.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2015, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,655,359 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Thanks for the interesting link. All in all, the percentage of households without a car is staggeringly high. It makes one wonder how many of those households are just completely destitute and how many could afford a car if they wanted to have one, but have chosen of their own free will to forego car ownership.
Detriot has a very blue collar workforce and no blue collar jobs. There are nit many jobs at all. Housing costs are in decline, the city can't afford its services and there are few grocery stores. Everything that can go wrong has, people have to be ultra creative to survive. We think it is a very isolated case, but that is not accurate either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2015, 01:40 PM
 
12,705 posts, read 9,964,692 times
Reputation: 9515
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The article is written from a Manhattan perspective. It is worth noting that in that location, most people in fact don't own cars, unlike the rest of the country.

In many areas the stations are too few and far between, trains/buses are too far apart in time, or routes take too long either due to low speeds or too many transfers. For these reasons many find it inconvenient to use transit in those areas.

And also some people think driving is cheaper (though mistaken) because they look only at the cost of gas and leave out the escalation of maintenance/repair and depreciation costs that go with mileage being put on a vehicle...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2015, 08:43 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,769 posts, read 54,408,375 times
Reputation: 31058
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresTheBeef View Post
Why people don't use mass transit?

1) They don't want to be around stinky people with bedbugs and risk having their pockets picked.

2) They don't want to wait at a bus stop for 15 minutes just to spend one hour on a bus to go 10 or 12 miles to Downtown. When my office was Downtown, I used to take the bus one way and ride back on a bike trail (about a 30 mile hike) a couple of times a week, so I am well aware of how long it takes to get anywhere with a bus.
I just got off the bus and it was packed like sardines, standing people filling the aisles, on the trip from our city of 45,000 with median family income $135k to downtown Seattle. Most people taking it have 2-3 cars (we have 3) but appreciate the speed at which the bus gets us to work using the transit lanes, with our nasty traffic, and the cost savings since major employers subsidize the bus pass. We have no issues with stinky people, bedbugs, or pick-pockets, because routes going to the eastside suburbs run only at commute times, and are not of any use to people moving within the city of Seattle. We may trip over a few homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk when walking from the bus stop to the office, but that's about the extent of the negative side. The route I take runs every 10 minutes, so waiting 15 minutes would be very unusual.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top