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Old 03-18-2014, 07:06 PM
 
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It's been said that during World War 2, Canada treated its ethnic Japanese internees WORSE than the U.S. treated theirs.
Japanese Canadians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:04 PM
 
286 posts, read 386,561 times
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The biggest way that racism applies in housing today is making things unaffordable.
Take Oakland, CA.
Oakland has been zoned in such a way that it has multi -million dollar homes in the hills, great schools, great police, ems response times, and great paved streets and highways; the exact opposite of the Oakland flatlands.

Considering a 1bdrm apt in the Oakland hills cost about $1600/mo and the majority of wealth in America is white people... they are making it impossible for non whites to have access to these schools. The schools are mapped/zoned in a way to keep poorer people out. And you're liable to get questioned for being up there.. you know, a concerned citizen called in.

What I don't understand is why the Oakland tax payers are not complaining about this.
Their roads never get paved.. it will mess up your tires.
The school books (at least when I went to school there ) were hand me downs from the upper schools (yrs old). And everyone is paying into the same tax pool.

Anywho, keep the prices unattainable separate yourself from certain races.
Minorities are making more now, and considering fact that segregation ended in 1954 and it took maybe a generation before people actually stopped hating blacks and actually hiring them.
Considering the fact that a generation is about 25 years. I would say a lot has been achieved in 1 & 1/2 generations.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,660,252 times
Reputation: 26651
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeSaySheSay View Post
The biggest way that racism applies in housing today is making things unaffordable.
Take Oakland, CA.
Oakland has been zoned in such a way that it has multi -million dollar homes in the hills, great schools, great police, ems response times, and great paved streets and highways; the exact opposite of the Oakland flatlands.

Considering a 1bdrm apt in the Oakland hills cost about $1600/mo and the majority of wealth in America is white people... they are making it impossible for non whites to have access to these schools. The schools are mapped/zoned in a way to keep poorer people out. And you're liable to get questioned for being up there.. you know, a concerned citizen called in.

What I don't understand is why the Oakland tax payers are not complaining about this.
Their roads never get paved.. it will mess up your tires.
The school books (at least when I went to school there ) were hand me downs from the upper schools (yrs old). And everyone is paying into the same tax pool.

Anywho, keep the prices unattainable separate yourself from certain races.
Minorities are making more now, and considering fact that segregation ended in 1954 and it took maybe a generation before people actually stopped hating blacks and actually hiring them.
Considering the fact that a generation is about 25 years. I would say a lot has been achieved in 1 & 1/2 generations.
I disagree. I live near the "hills."

Oakland schools are fairly closely aligned by neighborhood. But while the wealthiest areas are mostly white, the ones in the middle are very very mixed (middle to upper middle class). Half of the middle class areas do not have an ethnic majority of any form. And some are "majority" black (read this as 35-40%). Schools are getting better across the board. Particularly in the middle class areas. (Glenview, Dimond and Laurel have improved tons recently, and these areas are pretty mixed somewhere around 45% white, 25% Asian, 25% black and 10% Latino, give or take a few points here and there.)

Not sure where you got the idea the roads are "Way better" in there hills. Most of them suck across the entire city. Maybe the areas at the top go the hill have nice roads, but that's only because it isn't densely populated over there, so there is no car traffic. Piedmont roads are way nicer, but that's a different city. My roads suck, Trestle Glen roads suck, Crocker Highlands suck, the Glenview sucks... Those ones in Keller are pretty good, but that is a super new development.

Unlike other parts of the US, if I am rolling around in the hills, most of the time no one finds it out of place.

California doesn't wear its racism on its sleeve like other places, it is mostly class based more than anything else. If you can write the check, you are generally welcome. Especially in Oakland. Maybe over in MArin County they are less welcoming, but not in Oakland.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:46 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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How'd do you get road problems without winter? Our roads are full of potholes
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:00 PM
 
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Freezing temperatures wears out roads more quickly, but California roads have a lack of funding. Between Prop. 13 and a hesitance to raise gas taxes to a level where they pay for the cost of maintenance of our rather huge quantity of roads, maintenance intervals for many California roads are high--thus, potholes.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:08 PM
 
286 posts, read 386,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I disagree. I live near the "hills."

Oakland schools are fairly closely aligned by neighborhood. But while the wealthiest areas are mostly white, the ones in the middle are very very mixed (middle to upper middle class). Half of the middle class areas do not have an ethnic majority of any form. And some are "majority" black (read this as 35-40%). Schools are getting better across the board. Particularly in the middle class areas. (Glenview, Dimond and Laurel have improved tons recently, and these areas are pretty mixed somewhere around 45% white, 25% Asian, 25% black and 10% Latino, give or take a few points here and there.)

Not sure where you got the idea the roads are "Way better" in there hills. Most of them suck across the entire city. Maybe the areas at the top go the hill have nice roads, but that's only because it isn't densely populated over there, so there is no car traffic. Piedmont roads are way nicer, but that's a different city. My roads suck, Trestle Glen roads suck, Crocker Highlands suck, the Glenview sucks... Those ones in Keller are pretty good, but that is a super new development.

Unlike other parts of the US, if I am rolling around in the hills, most of the time no one finds it out of place.

California doesn't wear its racism on its sleeve like other places, it is mostly class based more than anything else. If you can write the check, you are generally welcome. Especially in Oakland. Maybe over in MArin County they are less welcoming, but not in Oakland.

I respectfully disagree. A drive down San Leandro st is a much bumpier ride then say a drive down MacArthur starting near the Laurel district heading towards the Dimond District and Lake.

OUSD has 274 schools and there isn't any way they can all be progressing at the same time.
Although Charter schools in lower income areas have been making great progress the overwhelming majority of Oakland lower income schools are struggling. With high crime and parents who are out of the house working its not a surprise nor is it just an Oakland Problem.
Oakland Schools - Oakland, CA | GreatSchools

This article called "Zoning the poor out of good schools" specifically mentions Oakland, CA but talks about Ca is a whole. Oakland does it noticeably.
Zoning The Poor Out of Good Schools | California Progress Report



Take Parker Elementary for example: Look at how this school is zoned.


What is the reason for not zoning squares. OUSD purposely mapped schools in odd shapes based on income. It was a nice sized scandal that simply went away after a few reports.

Just look at how Montclair is mapped: Seriously, look it up and see all of the squiggly lines. Most of the lines are worse.

Welcome to OUSD's Map Center!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:15 PM
 
286 posts, read 386,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
How'd do you get road problems without winter? Our roads are full of potholes
IDK but there are lots of really deep potholes and cracks. The ride is really bumpy/lumpy you can literally here your axels if your going the speed limit. You have to slow down. There are even some gravel roads in fully developed areas.

Tree roots have also cracked side walks to the point where certain parts of the side walks are lifted up. There is literally two different parts of Oakland. Actually there is 3, china town is a different area.. they even have different crosswalks. You can cross multiple ways. and the streets are smooth
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,660,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeSaySheSay View Post
I respectfully disagree. A drive down San Leandro st is a much bumpier ride then say a drive down MacArthur starting near the Laurel district heading towards the Dimond District and Lake.

OUSD has 274 schools and there isn't any way they can all be progressing at the same time.
Although Charter schools in lower income areas have been making great progress the overwhelming majority of Oakland lower income schools are struggling. With high crime and parents who are out of the house working its not a surprise nor is it just an Oakland Problem.
Oakland Schools - Oakland, CA | GreatSchools

This article called "Zoning the poor out of good schools" specifically mentions Oakland, CA but talks about Ca is a whole. Oakland does it noticeably.
Zoning The Poor Out of Good Schools | California Progress Report

Take Parker Elementary for example: Look at how this school is zoned.

What is the reason for not zoning squares. OUSD purposely mapped schools in odd shapes based on income. It was a nice sized scandal that simply went away after a few reports.

Just look at how Montclair is mapped: Seriously, look it up and see all of the squiggly lines. Most of the lines are worse.

Welcome to OUSD's Map Center!
Most of this is related to income over explicitly raced base, in my book. Which is a little different. But California is also really divided by income, not so much race these days. Solving the income inequality problem is more critical than worrying about the class segregation that can fall on racial lines in some cases. Oakland's wealthier areas are far more ethnically mixed than anywhere else in the Bay Area. Money talks, race doesn't necessarily.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:45 PM
 
286 posts, read 386,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Most of this is related to income over explicitly raced base, in my book. Which is a little different. But California is also really divided by income, not so much race these days. Solving the income inequality problem is more critical than worrying about the class segregation that can fall on racial lines in some cases. Oakland's wealthier areas are far more ethnically mixed than anywhere else in the Bay Area. Money talks, race doesn't necessarily.
Yes.. that is what I said.
And income is a new way to widen the social divide. If you re-read my first post I talked about income inequality and how although Blacks have made great strides in income equality we still are only 2 generations removed from segregation and still trying to catch up to whites who have had 100s of years to build income and great schools. According to a study, approx. 93% of Americans will have similar financial situations as their parents because of access to education etc. I

But it is true that Oakland's wealthier area is more diverse than the rest of the bay area.. and even then it can be better.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:25 PM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 892,436 times
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Part of why I mentioned the West coast (including California) separately is that though there are racial tensions, they seem kind of different and why I put Canada and Australia in a similar comparison is that these places all seem to have racial tensions where non-whites were more recent immigrants or transplants (eg. blacks in the Great Migration, recent Hispanic and Asian immigrants) rather than in the East where there was a longer history of black-white tensions and relations obviously which got more time to be institutional and thus more likely to have influenced the long-term urban landscape.

That's not to say there's no racism either, but it seems different out west in how the history developed.

The income segregation rather than explicit race segregation mentioned for Oakland actually reminds me of what people say for Canadian or Aussie cities -- that a poor neighborhood seems to be just seen as a poor neighborhood that happens to have immigrants or non-whites, rather than one that is specifically a white neighborhood, black neighborhood, Asian one etc.
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