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Old 03-19-2014, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
One other thing about "white flight"--it didn't just apply to downtowns. Suburbs that were first settled by whites but didn't have sufficiently well-enforced racial covenants were subject to "blockbusting"--one Black family would move into the neighborhood and all the white households would stampede to move out, assuming that property values would tumble, which became a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's part of why Californians defended rotten things like racial covenants long after they were clearly illegal in the eyes of federal law.
That phenomenon was measured by the way. The tipping point was 8%.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
After WW II, almost 20 years of pent up demand for new housing exploded in the only places where it could: the areas just beyond the city limits, ie, the suburbs.
After WWII, VA-guaranteed home loans (requiring no down payments) for veterans of WWII and the Korean wars certainly were fuel for that explosion.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:01 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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There's an interesting mathematical model for white flight. I remember having a discussion about it a while ago. Here's a paper that refers to it:

http://dev3.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/1/15...s/easterly.pdf

[didn't read through it much but I think that's it]
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:12 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
After WWII, VA-guaranteed home loans (requiring no down payments) for veterans of WWII and the Korean wars certainly were fuel for that explosion.
Well, yeah, but that does not imply a conspiracy. Some cities simply annexed the homes.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:27 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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In northern cities, outlying neighborhoods built post-1950 (Staten Island, Northeast Philly) were often as white or whiter than new outlying suburbs. Staten Island voted for George Wallace more than any other county in NY State. I asked a [white] friend from Staten Island whether he said he thought a black person would comfortable in his neighborhood he said he wasn't sure but hadn't thought of it before.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
That must be most of it. Oakland and a few other parts of California sound like they had similar tensions to northern cities, though a different recent demographic change.

Oakland, and California in general seem to have a rather large problem with violent crime in inner city black neighborhoods, perhaps among the worst in the county. Mostly from gangs. A comparison:

I'd assume San Francisco is somewhat similar to Oakland in black murder rate. And since Oakland has a significant black middle class population (I doubt jade408's neighborhood is particularly violent) in poorer black neighborhood it's worse than the averages suggest. Though the same could be said for wherever BajanYankee lives.

While probably caused initially by ghettoization and racism*, the high violent crime of minority (particularly black neighborhoods) creates more city avoidance and racial tensions / stereotyping than would otherwise.

*In the south, black on black violent crime was often ignored and not prosecuted by authorities.
The last numbers I saw had SF having a much higher black murder rate than even Oakland. Unfortunately, SF does a great job under-reporting crime as well.

In Oakland, crime is mostly concentrated to the poor areas. Where I live (in a denser area in the center of the city in a pretty mixed middle class area, it isn't majority black, it might barely cross over into majority white at about 50%), there are minor property crimes (apple picking, occasional car break-ins sometimes, mostly below where I live) and not many violent incidents. The last one I recall was around 4 or 6 years ago....

But head over to East Oakland, and it is a whole other ball game. Shooting deaths rarely even cross over to above 35th Ave. The crime rate is definitely worse over there. Significantly so. And other parts have minimal crime.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That is very interesting. I believe Swedesboro is a historic name, the Swedes came over to that area early on (there is an "Old Swedes Church" in Wilmington, DE), but then they quit coming, for a long time.
Holy Trinity Church (Old Swedes) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Delaware Valley was settled by the Dutch and Swedes in fits and starts for 30 years before the British arrived.

While in the Hudson Valley the transition was relatively peaceful and the Dutch maintained their identity into the early 20th Century the British response in the Delaware Valley was brutal with the British burning most villages to the ground and selling some of the Dutch into slavery in Virginia.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:48 PM
 
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You may want to read about The Coops, Bronx NY. Very interesting story. The pioneers of co-ops; first in the USA. in The Bronx which at the time was barren no mans land until the train came. (from what I remember)

Hear it from "the horses' mouths". There's a documentary about it and many written pieces. At Home in Utopia

The "white flight" 1928, was by 2000 Eastern European, Russian and Polish immigrant Jews, members of the United Garment Workers Union, who wanted GRASS. And a dynamic, vibrant community.

Union activists, Communists. They created a paradise there from NOTHING. A workers cooperative colony. But it fell apart and Utopia faded, when the community later couldn't agree on the equitable distribution of work/resources, of course. These same people embraced the Black community including inter-racial marriages at the Coops.

I think the documentary you can still get, too or watch online.

Independent Lens . AT HOME IN UTOPIA . The Film | PBS


Partial video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZgZgzua6I

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ype=blogs&_r=0

http://www.lesonline.org/cv/AmalgamatedHousing.pdf
Finding Utopia in the Bronx | Bronx Bohemian
United Workers' Cooperative Colony ("The Coops") | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam...ng_Cooperative


Then another story from this community Concord Park in the suburbs of Phila, built specifically for racial integration actually by another NYC Jewish man who wanted to do something about it (original people still live there):

Black History | Remembering Milton Milgram Legacy for Racial Integration

There's also the topic of groups SELF SEGREGATING. Quite common even today, IE Willingboro (township) NJ. A middle class mostly family type place.

Willingboro Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Levitt community outside of Philly, that was originally probably entirely white that has grown to be probably 80% African American. I've lost count of the number of people I know that moved there from my former company in Philly area. Well over 100 friends of mine over maybe a decade. NOBODY was interested in moving to MY neighborhood. Just Willingboro LOL.

It's not all that simple. People are not in a hurry to move away from "home", either. Even NOW.

My girlfriend at work spent a year trying to get her grandmother to move out of a sketchy area in downtown Philly to Willingboro to live with her family. NOPE. Her excuse? Her bookie. hahaha.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 03-19-2014 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Freezing temperatures wears out roads more quickly, but California roads have a lack of funding. Between Prop. 13 and a hesitance to raise gas taxes to a level where they pay for the cost of maintenance of our rather huge quantity of roads, maintenance intervals for many California roads are high--thus, potholes.
Don't forget the all the money diverted from roads to other projects...
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HeSaySheSay View Post
The biggest way that racism applies in housing today is making things unaffordable.
Take Oakland, CA.
Oakland has been zoned in such a way that it has multi -million dollar homes in the hills, great schools, great police, ems response times, and great paved streets and highways; the exact opposite of the Oakland flatlands.

Considering a 1bdrm apt in the Oakland hills cost about $1600/mo and the majority of wealth in America is white people... they are making it impossible for non whites to have access to these schools. The schools are mapped/zoned in a way to keep poorer people out. And you're liable to get questioned for being up there.. you know, a concerned citizen called in.

What I don't understand is why the Oakland tax payers are not complaining about this.
Their roads never get paved.. it will mess up your tires.
The school books (at least when I went to school there ) were hand me downs from the upper schools (yrs old). And everyone is paying into the same tax pool.

Anywho, keep the prices unattainable separate yourself from certain races.
Minorities are making more now, and considering fact that segregation ended in 1954 and it took maybe a generation before people actually stopped hating blacks and actually hiring them.
Considering the fact that a generation is about 25 years. I would say a lot has been achieved in 1 & 1/2 generations.
I'm 4th generation Oakland resident...

My father attended Maxwell, Frick and Fremont public schools in Oakland in the 30's and 40's...

He remained in touch with his classmates which included Italians, Irish, Germans, African, American Indian, Mexican, Chinese and Japanese and this was before WWII.

Oakland was a destination of Pullman Porters and they lived middle class lives like others working for a living at the canneries or the chevrolet plant or in manufacturing... Oakland for years was called the Detroit of the West because of the auto related industries.

Maybe living in Oakland we were not exposed to the type of racism elsewhere.

My Laurel neighborhood has undergone several transformations... as the mostly white homeowner moved, black families bought and later sold to asian which sold to those from Mexico and Central America and now every home sold is going to mixed or white families...

The African American population has been in decline for years... those I know owned their homes and decided to move... those that stayed local moved to new homes in Antioch, Vallejo, Tracy etc with others simply cashing out and moving back to the South...

Of the 22 homes on my block... 2 are white (With one lady being an original homeowner and lived alone at age 100) 2 are asian and 18 are african american.

It's a great neighborhood... people look out for everyone without being intrusive...
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