Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A lot of blockbusting and white flight were due to more institutionalized forms of racism--did Canada or Australia have policies like redlining, where a neighborhood's credit risk (and thus its property value) were determined largely by the racial composition of the neighborhood until the early 1970s?
No, but of course there were very few non-white minorities in those countries before the early 1970s.
**Even today, of France’s 577 members of parliament, only five are black. . . . Immigrants became the band-aid solution to France’s economic problems. . . .African immigrants who stayed were forced from slums into hostels where they were further segregated and ghettoised. . . Opposition to immigrants festered and, by 1977, more than half of France’s citizens said they wanted to see immigration numbers decrease.**
Blacks aren't going to hold many elected offices because there are only estimated to be about 2 million of them out of 63 million people.
And I didn't say there was *no* segregation in France. When I say that race is more entrenched here, I mean...
Black colleges (Howard, Spelman, etc.)
Black American churches
African American Vernacular
Black media (Ed Gordon, Tavis Smiley, VH1 Soul, Essence Magazine)
Black National Anthem
African American cuisine
With the exception of Black History Month in the UK (started in the 80s), there are no equivalents of the things I noted above in Europe. So it's not just residential segregation here in the States, it's a type of cultural segregation that runs along racial lines. When you say "Black American culture" to someone in New York, they have a very clear sense of what that means, but if you say "Black French culture" to someone in Paris, they'll have no idea what you're talking about.
A lot of blockbusting and white flight were due to more institutionalized forms of racism--did Canada or Australia have policies like redlining, where a neighborhood's credit risk (and thus its property value) were determined largely by the racial composition of the neighborhood until the early 1970s?
Many of these Black people are descendants of Black Loyalists that came primarily from the US after the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. So, even in Canada, there are similar examples.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2014 at 02:17 PM..
I don't think there's too much overt racism anywhere (with a few notable exceptions like genocides and European soccer stadiums). I've been all throughout the Deep South and never has anyone said to me, "Shine my shoes, boy!" It's hard to judge racism if it's not directed at you anyway.
What's a bit different in the U.S. is a greater degree of segregation (some voluntary, some not). And that's largely because we've had two different American cultures developing parallel to one another since 1607: White American culture and Black American culture. In America, Blacks have a culture and identity that is extremely distinct (churches, music, food, national anthem, colleges, etc.). That's not really the case in England or France where there's much more assimilation (and the government actively promotes it in the latter).
France still has segregated hoods outside of many of the major cities where many immigrants(generally Black with some Arabs) of lower income economic status live.
France still has segregated hoods outside of many of the major cities where many immigrants(generally Black with some Arabs) of lower income economic status live.
Yes, this is true, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Blacks in the U.S. largely live in a culture separate and apart from everyone else. It's very distinct. That applies to the churches, TV channels, radio stations, foods, etc. It's not really like that in England. The Afro-British identity is not nearly as strong. So when immigrants come from Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, etc., there isn't an established "black" culture for them to assimilate into the way we have here. You will never hear an Afro-Brit say "you talk like a white girl" because the average Afro-Brit sounds like any other White Brit.
African Americans and immigrants (of any race) view America in very different ways. The former have a culture that's developed in America over centuries. The latter usually seek to assimilate into "mainstream" American culture.
Yes, this is true, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Blacks in the U.S. largely live in a culture separate and apart from everyone else. It's very distinct. That applies to the churches, TV channels, radio stations, foods, etc. It's not really like that in England. The Afro-British identity is not nearly as strong. So when immigrants come from Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, etc., there isn't an established "black" culture for them to assimilate into the way we have here. You will never hear an Afro-Brit say "you talk like a white girl" because the average Afro-Brit sounds like any other White Brit.
African Americans and immigrants (of any race) view America in very different ways. The former have a culture that's developed in America over centuries. The latter usually seek to assimilate into "mainstream" American culture.
Oh, I understood that. I was talking about the aspect of housing patterns in relation to race in France.
What you mention will be different due to socio-historical reasons, as Blacks in substantial or notable numbers are only a few to several decades old thing in those countries versus the US, which has had a substantial Black population from the beginning. You could say that the African American experience is unique and dare I say, more American is the sense of being a culture created out of culture of origin, other cultural influences and social circumstances.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2014 at 05:27 PM..
It is good to note that for places like California, the great migration came for blue collar jobs. There wasn't a long history with black institutions like colleges and churches. Or a history of black middle class or elites. So the black people here were disproportionately impacted by the decline of American manufacturing etc when the middle class income producing jobs disappeared.
That hugely shapes the current dynamics. In the north and south, there is a much longer black history and more class variation.
That's just as true in the northern cities, and it's an important point to mention. When young blacks moved away from the rural south toward industry during the second Great Migration, they largely did not take their "culture repositories" with them.
I was talking to a fellow Boomer a few years ago who was from Chicago. He said that over his lifetime, he'd noted that while in Chicago blacks were fixed on trying to get a job, most of those he met coming from the south were talking about starting a business. And being mostly from the south myself--with a mother who had been a barber running her own shops in different places most of my life (we were a military family, but my mother always set up shop wherever we moved)--I found myself nodding at that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
