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Old 03-18-2014, 10:47 PM
 
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Reading any thread from those forums, you will notice a general theme that one of the push factors is high housing prices, specifically single-family housing. Now, many of these areas also have implemented strategies aimed at curtailing urban sprawl. So are smart growth plans pushing people trying to pursue the idealistic 'American dream' of a suburban home and cars away from these areas? Of course, there is other factors such as taxes, but we're focusing on this single issue.

Before anyone adds in Portland and Seattle as a counterexample, I will say that these regions still have much land to sprawl on. Most likely, voters will strengthen the sprawl containment zones and from there, prices would likely increase.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
Reading any thread from those forums, you will notice a general theme that one of the push factors is high housing prices, specifically single-family housing. Now, many of these areas also have implemented strategies aimed at curtailing urban sprawl. So are smart growth plans pushing people trying to pursue the idealistic 'American dream' of a suburban home and cars away from these areas? Of course, there is other factors such as taxes, but we're focusing on this single issue.

Before anyone adds in Portland and Seattle as a counterexample, I will say that these regions still have much land to sprawl on. Most likely, voters will strengthen the sprawl containment zones and from there, prices would likely increase.
Well I'll speak to Norther California's problems. In my region you need $800k - $1M to live in a crappy house in good school district. People with household incomes of $180k can't find a decent home in a good school district. Your tech job in Austin May bay 20% less than the Bay Area equivalent, but your house is less than half the price.

Additionally, the Bay Area had added some crazy numbers like 200k jobs and 25k new housing units.

Smart growth is hardly on the radar as a reason to leave. The poor ratio between commute time, housing quality, school quality and city services is a good reason to move if you have a family. In fact any new housing would help the housing cost problem, even if it is a type you don't like.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:59 PM
 
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First it might be helpful to provide some numbers demonstrating that people are leaving those states, rather than having us accept that it's a true statement without evidence?
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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California and the Northeast are heavily populated areas, there will always be people migrating away from these two areas to lesser populated areas. I don't think it has anything to do with "smart growth." Heck, I have been through a good portion of the Northeast now and I wouldn't consider much of it to be "smart growth" in any shape or form, but definitely a lot of urban and suburban sprawl, but that is to be expected when you have roughly 55 million people living in the Northeast.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:05 AM
 
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Out-migration from the Northeast is older than the United States.

People want to live near jobs and amenities. When you have a few million people competing for those things the prices go up.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:08 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
Now, many of these areas also have implemented strategies aimed at curtailing urban sprawl. So are smart growth plans pushing people trying to pursue the idealistic 'American dream' of a suburban home and cars away from these areas? Of course, there is other factors such as taxes, but we're focusing on this single issue.
In the Northeast, smart growth is more about infill development than limiting sprawl—mainly because there’s nowhere left to sprawl. Cities like Boston and New York are expensive because they have limited land and vibrant economies that attract lots of people with money. The problem is NIMBY-ism and zoning limits on density, not attempts to limit the suburbs.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:54 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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What tpk_nyc said.

There's not all that much smart growth in the majority of Northeast suburbs, though infill development here and there.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
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I don't think it's so much smart growth, but rather just the high cost of living compared to income. It's possible to make it work, but with less...the benefits being proximity to the particular area. For example, you can still have the true suburban lifestyle in New Jersey or Long Island, you'll pay $400k-$800k for a house and $8k-$15 a year in property tax (among other increases like tolls, cost of fuel, cost of goods and commute time) that you could probably find a similar house in a similar type of neighborhood for half or even less of those prices around another city. The difference being that the NJ or LI ones put you within commutable distance of Manhattan and that proximity is what makes it so much.

The problem I have is that even with the higher incomes of the NYC area, I find that it's still hard to find an affordable suburban living arrangement...this isn't really a problem of anyone but myself, it's just the way it is. I wouldn't mind finding an area along the East Coast that has a decent level of well paying jobs in my field (software) but has lower housing cost, at the expense of being a 4-10 hour drive from Manhattan versus commutable distance. I'd want to be in that range of NYC since it's my home, but the more I think about it the more I don't see the worth of the proximity when I don't really have the need to be in Manhattan all the time. I can always drive back to see friends/family in Staten Island, so no biggie there.

This is primarily why I'm always looking up jobs/housing in the NoVa/DC suburbs, North Carolina and even Philly suburbs in PA, since I think I'll probably make my exodus from this money sucking region eventually lol. Similar reasons (and distance from home) are also why I've pretty much ruled out California, since I'd have to super-commute to be able to afford a decent size (not McMansion) suburban home.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:25 AM
 
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People have to also keep in mind that the Northeast isn't monolitic in terms of cost of living and population density.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:05 AM
 
563 posts, read 680,707 times
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Hmm,

here is one link.

Joe Shmoe Shrugs: Kotkin on California
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