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Old 03-21-2014, 10:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Also kids having their own bedroom was pretty luxurious 25 years ago and now it is required for the middle class.
LOL, I know middle class people who have kids who share a room. It is just easier to have a room for each kid when you usually don't have more than 2.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,698,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
LOL, I know middle class people who have kids who share a room. It is just easier to have a room for each kid when you usually don't have more than 2.
I had a few friends who shared a room....I did too until I was 8 or 9 and was able to convince my parents the office wasn't necessary.

But now? Wow sharing a room? The tv and Xbox get their own room.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Tijuana Exurbs
4,003 posts, read 10,455,145 times
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Economies of scale.

It is cheaper to build one 50,000 sq foot building than to build 10 5,000 sq foot buildings.

Same goes for tract housing. It's cheaper to build 1000 homes on one large plot of land than to build 1000 homes scattered over various neighborhoods on the odd ball vacant lot.

Plus all of the reasons the earlier posters gave, such as greater flexibility for business tenants with differing requirements.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:59 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
A century ago if you wanted to watch a movie you couldn't do it at home--and playing was generally done outside. And having one bathroom was, depending on what part of the country you lived in, considered pretty swank. As to dining rooms etc, typically people dine in the same room as they watch movies and the kids play (on their Xbox) and if they have a dining room it sits empty except for holidays--but the total average house size has gone up prodigiously. Generally house patterns these days use the "great room" with a lot of open space from the kitchen through the living/dining/den/home theater to the grand entrance. Plus we need a big room in front of the house for the gasoline-powered members of the family and their little gasoline-powered friends like the lawnmower.
Kids did not play outside 100% of the time a century ago. The weather hasn't changed *that* much in 100 years. You don't send your kids out to play in the driving rain, or in a blizzard. 50 years ago, outside play in the winter consisted of maybe a couple hours. 20 years ago, when my kids were doing it, a couple hours. Kids get cold, their feet get wet (especially in PA), they need to go to the bathroom, etc. 100 years ago, farm kids worked on the farm, and a lot of city kids worked in factories, too.

Since you don't have kids, I'm not sure how you know what "kids these days" do. We always ate in our dining room (still do), b/c when we moved into this house we only had one table and it went into the dining room, along with the high chair we were using at the time for our two year old. The kitchen eating area became a play area/homework area as the kids got older. Now it's an office area.

Our house is old enough that we still have the living room, which is one room in the house that really doesn't get used unless we have company), and a family room, where the TV is. My daughter's house, 15 years old, has a great room. I honestly think you've been touring too many show homes if you think that every family, especially every suburban family, lives as you described. Not too many "grand entrances", either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Also kids having their own bedroom was pretty luxurious 25 years ago and now it is required for the middle class.
Oh, even 55 years ago my brother and I had our own rooms. My daughters didn't share a room b/c we have four bedrooms, but in our first house, which only had two bedrooms on the second floor, they did share.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 03-22-2014 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:38 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,676,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot View Post
Economies of scale.

It is cheaper to build one 50,000 sq foot building than to build 10 5,000 sq foot buildings.

Same goes for tract housing. It's cheaper to build 1000 homes on one large plot of land than to build 1000 homes scattered over various neighborhoods on the odd ball vacant lot.

Plus all of the reasons the earlier posters gave, such as greater flexibility for business tenants with differing requirements.
I don't understand though-wouldnt building things piece by piece be more responsive to demand? As in, you wouldn't have to worry about building a huge structure and having it only half filled?
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:18 AM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,574,087 times
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Depends on market conditions. Building buildings on spec may end up being cheaper even if it sits vacant for a while, and even vacant buildings are a tax write-off. That's part of why people buy old buildings in downtowns and let them sit vacant: they're waiting for a better opportunity to come along and in the meantime it's a tax shelter.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,698,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Kids did not play outside 100% of the time a century ago. The weather hasn't changed *that* much in 100 years. You don't send your kids out to play in the driving rain, or in a blizzard. 50 years ago, outside play in the winter consisted of maybe a couple hours. 20 years ago, when my kids were doing it, a couple hours. Kids get cold, their feet get wet (especially in PA), they need to go to the bathroom, etc. 100 years ago, farm kids worked on the farm, and a lot of city kids worked in factories, too.

Since you don't have kids, I'm not sure how you know what "kids these days" do. We always ate in our dining room (still do), b/c when we moved into this house we only had one table and it went into the dining room table, along with the high chair we were using at the time for our two year old. The kitchen eating area became a play area/homework area as the kids got older. Now it's an office area.

Our house is old enough that we still have the living room, which is one room in the house that really doesn't get used unless we have company), and a family room, where the TV is. My daughter's house, 15 years old, has a great room. I honestly think you've been touring too many show homes if you think that every family, especially every suburban family, lives as you described. Not too many "grand entrances", either.

Oh, even 55 years ago my brother and I had our own rooms. My daughters didn't share a room b/c we have four bedrooms, but in our first house, which only had two bedrooms on the second floor, they did share.
Hmm well I grew up in suburbia. In CA we lived in a 2 story ranch like house. We had the formal living room and dining room for holidays. An eat in kitchen that faced the "family room." We at din nipper in the kitchen. Sometimes the tv would be on and we'd play jeopardy and wheel of fortune or family feud along with the TV. And then after dinner and the kitchen was clean we'd either stay in the family room or retreat to our rooms for homework or whatever. After school we didn't play outside as much because we had to do our homework first. But once the homework was done we could play outside. On the weekends we played outside 100% (of course bathroom breaks were allowed and mom made us picnic lunches to eat in the backyard.). There was an unspoken rule that we were supposed to play outside all day, and we knew the boundaries. They extended by a block every few years.

Then we moved to a new home in the south. We still had an eat in kitchen, and living and dining rooms. They were more in the great room config, so we just carved off sections for the living room and dining room. My mom loves having the separate tables for holidays. We had the "sunroom" that became the family room. Then there was an extra room, called the bonus room that was office/kids play room. And we used that room for reading, when my sister and I had joint guests and we wanted to be away from the view of the parents.

But we still "played outside" and rode bikes until I was 14 at least...we befriended all of the younger kids and evolved our games to sports and the pool. I didn't live anywhere especially cold so outside was common. We also played video games inside too. Typically during the summer we'd go to the pool for a few hours and then play video games. Or play badminton at the neighbors.

My parents grew up in smaller homes, so they had more room sharing. And the neighbors weren't really separated by fences, so play included everyones yard and the "woods" nearby. We adopted those rules when visiting our grandparents of course. And they were similar for the font yards in my suburban neighborhoods.

I feel like, even 20-30 years ago people were less concerned about everyone being private and my space.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:28 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Hmm well I grew up in suburbia. In CA we lived in a 2 story ranch like house. We had the formal living room and dining room for holidays. An eat in kitchen that faced the "family room." We at din nipper in the kitchen. Sometimes the tv would be on and we'd play jeopardy and wheel of fortune or family feud along with the TV. And then after dinner and the kitchen was clean we'd either stay in the family room or retreat to our rooms for homework or whatever. After school we didn't play outside as much because we had to do our homework first. But once the homework was done we could play outside. On the weekends we played outside 100% (of course bathroom breaks were allowed and mom made us picnic lunches to eat in the backyard.). There was an unspoken rule that we were supposed to play outside all day, and we knew the boundaries. They extended by a block every few years.

Then we moved to a new home in the south. We still had an eat in kitchen, and living and dining rooms. They were more in the great room config, so we just carved off sections for the living room and dining room. My mom loves having the separate tables for holidays. We had the "sunroom" that became the family room. Then there was an extra room, called the bonus room that was office/kids play room. And we used that room for reading, when my sister and I had joint guests and we wanted to be away from the view of the parents.

But we still "played outside" and rode bikes until I was 14 at least...we befriended all of the younger kids and evolved our games to sports and the pool. I didn't live anywhere especially cold so outside was common. We also played video games inside too. Typically during the summer we'd go to the pool for a few hours and then play video games. Or play badminton at the neighbors.

My parents grew up in smaller homes, so they had more room sharing. And the neighbors weren't really separated by fences, so play included everyones yard and the "woods" nearby. We adopted those rules when visiting our grandparents of course. And they were similar for the font yards in my suburban neighborhoods.

I feel like, even 20-30 years ago people were less concerned about everyone being private and my space.
Every family does things differently. I will say most of my neighbors seem to eat in their kitchens (if they have eat-in) most of the time. We did not watch TV while eating, and even now, DH (who is the inveterate TV watcher in the fam) will turn it off and come in to the dining room to eat, even if Nebraska is playing football on the TV! Now, we might wait a minute or two for the big play, and once in a while he'll turn on the radio (almost in dining room) to listen to the game.

My kids, who are not much younger than you, played outside a lot, but they did inside things too, like board games, etc. I did try to limit TV during the day anyway.

Here in CO, "privacy" has always been a big issue, with some older subdivisions having a lot of gawd-awful 6 foot privacy fences, some with padlocks on them. My dad said it looked like a cattle feed lot around here. I think it's the smaller lots. Lately, the newer areas have lower fencing, e.g. 4-5 foot. Also, when we were young marrieds (ha!) and buying, "bigger is better" seemed to be the mantra. Everyone wanted a bigger home, all the time. DH really wanted a big home. After we moved into this one (which isn't *that* big) he wished we'd bought a smaller place b/c it would cost less to heat-no duh! Nowadays, at least here in my part of the metro Denver area, a lot of smaller homes on even smaller lots than previously are being built.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:46 PM
 
12,309 posts, read 15,212,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot View Post
Economies of scale.

It is cheaper to build one 50,000 sq foot building than to build 10 5,000 sq foot buildings.

Same goes for tract housing. It's cheaper to build 1000 homes on one large plot of land than to build 1000 homes scattered over various neighborhoods on the odd ball vacant lot.

Plus all of the reasons the earlier posters gave, such as greater flexibility for business tenants with differing requirements.
Exactly. And one reason for that is high permitting costs. Cost per building is lower if you build all at once, just one trip to city hall, utility hookup scheduled, possible Army Corps of Engineers permit. Scheduling of labor and material more efficient.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:14 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,004,090 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I don't understand though-wouldnt building things piece by piece be more responsive to demand? As in, you wouldn't have to worry about building a huge structure and having it only half filled?
Big structures using modern techniques are easy to partition using modular floor to ceiling walls. There are a lot of things people haven't brought up on the commercial end:

-Locality. Prior to the car, people walked to get things. Something like a dry goods store served a very small walkable area. Today you can transport purchases with your car or even have things shipped. So there is a larger catchment area for retail. In the late 19th Century, a big retail storefront might have only needed 2,500 sq ft to serve its customers (25x100).

-Manufacturing processes. Manufacturing buildings are single story, long facilities with automated processes and just in time inventory. Formerly, things were done piecemeal (smaller floor plates) and excess components were stored upstairs and brought down as needed. Component shipment wasn't as reliable.

-Financing. It's much easier to get financing for a large building today. Formerly, people has to build within their means, which in the late 19th century meant building small. Commercial was built with shared walls. Loading bearing using brick and mortar on the outside and joist spans of 20-28 feet on the interior to keep things open. Forget about steel or reinforced concrete.
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