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Old 03-23-2014, 04:38 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
It does seem there's been a trend in denser urban areas from small-scale density: rowhouses and small multifamily (either apartment buildings or just two/three family) to the extremes: single family detached mixed with big apartment buildings.
Take a look at these tables:

https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hous...ric/units.html

Apartment buildings with greater than 5 units increased in % while smaller apartment buildings and attached housing declined in %. Multifamily in western states (with newer housing) tends to be more larger apartment buildings compared to the Northeast (with NY skewed by NYC, where the larger apartments where common then, too.)
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
I stated that, to [or in square foot per land] but was told that's not true of Denver. Maybe newer, somewhat decentralized don't have much of a gradient? Some rust belt probably the reverse pattern: housing per square foot is cheap on average going towards the center.
Nah, the small house in the Ghetto might cost a lot less than the big house in the burbs, but it's small size also drives up the cost per square foot. In general dollar for dollar if the area in the city is somewhat desirable you can get a bigger house for the same money out in the burbs. It is just that people value short commutes to jobs over housing size or have other ties in the area. Locally Metra allows people to have the best of both worlds a big house in the burbs while still having a reasonable commute downtown.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
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Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Nah, the small house in the Ghetto might cost a lot less than the big house in the burbs, but it's small size also drives up the cost per square foot. In general dollar for dollar if the area in the city is somewhat desirable you can get a bigger house for the same money out in the burbs. It is just that people value short commutes to jobs over housing size or have other ties in the area. Locally Metra allows people to have the best of both worlds a big house in the burbs while still having a reasonable commute downtown.
Here is a map from trulia.com with a price/sq.ft. option on the left, to verify whether this is true:
US Home Prices and USA Heat Map - Trulia Real Estate Search - Trulia.com
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:33 PM
 
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Where it is largely a matter of density and land. But its not really growing at arte it once was> many in emerging markets are going thru what US did I that its energy and transport concentrations that limit job opportunities to urban areas now. Bu just as that has changed in US those with land mass will change as cost rise and other is feasible. Some small countries are built out really or can't support expansion. Many us cities are facing more and more funding problems from poor taxbase.
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Old 03-29-2014, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Where it is largely a matter of density and land. But its not really growing at arte it once was> many in emerging markets are going thru what US did I that its energy and transport concentrations that limit job opportunities to urban areas now. Bu just as that has changed in US those with land mass will change as cost rise and other is feasible. Some small countries are built out really or can't support expansion. Many us cities are facing more and more funding problems from poor taxbase.
Certainly in Detroit, where the City owns, and wishes it could sell, much of the land.Governments own 50,000 properties in Detroit | The Detroit News
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:01 PM
 
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Sorry to bump my own thread, but I kind of wanted to expand on the question again. Why is it that when new housing is constructed, it is done so further away from other buildings? Why is everything so spaced out? Let's take a look at some examples.

Our first set of examples deals with housing. Here, we see some historic housing units from a northern St. Louis neighborhood. There are multiple residential units in this picture, each built very close to one another.

Whereas here, in modern housing units in a nearby neighborhood, are much further spaced apart.

Why is it this way? Are the newer examples further spaced because of a much lower demand for density? Because of fire codes? Or for something else? It kind of confuses me, and I also don't like the way it looks (the brick facades of the new homes make it look like a half-arsed attempt at replicating historic housing).


Now onto commercial buildings.

See case 1 here, in downtown Indianapolis. The buildings are all unique, have a unique style, and each possess their own storefronts, dimensions, etc. while also being built wall-to-wall.

Whereas in case 2 here, back in St. Louis (in the Central West End), we have a property with a similar purpose, but it is a larger building with multiple storefronts.


Why are commercial buildings built like this now? To be honest, it seems counter-intuitive, as it concentrates the cost of a building to one owner, so if there are little to no businesses or residents paying rent, the whole structure suffers; this would be opposed to case 1, where if 1 storefront were to close, instead of affecting every building on the block and saddling that whole block with costs in unpaid rent, it confines that expense to one owner of one building while the rest keep humming along. So why is it this way?
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Sorry to bump my own thread, but I kind of wanted to expand on the question again. Why is it that when new housing is constructed, it is done so further away from other buildings? Why is everything so spaced out? Let's take a look at some examples.

Our first set of examples deals with housing. Here, we see some historic housing units from a northern St. Louis neighborhood. There are multiple residential units in this picture, each built very close to one another.

Whereas here, in modern housing units in a nearby neighborhood, are much further spaced apart.

Why is it this way? Are the newer examples further spaced because of a much lower demand for density? Because of fire codes? Or for something else? It kind of confuses me, and I also don't like the way it looks (the brick facades of the new homes make it look like a half-arsed attempt at replicating historic housing)
There are downsides to the older type of housing. Namely if those are apartments noise from people living above and below you. Even if they are houses you still get a bit of noise. People kind of like space between your house and your neighbors. The lack of space effects how you live. I personally couldn't play the piano when I was a kid because the next door neighbor worked night shift and could hear my playing. I used to deal with noise from another house next to me (babies; crying, people arguing, parties going way too late in the night. Heck I once herd some kids wonder if I had a swimming pool in my house because they hear me running my bath! I would not want to be any closer to my next door neighbors. ).
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chirack View Post
There are downsides to the older type of housing. Namely if those are apartments noise from people living above and below you. Even if they are houses you still get a bit of noise. People kind of like space between your house and your neighbors. The lack of space effects how you live. I personally couldn't play the piano when I was a kid because the next door neighbor worked night shift and could hear my playing. I used to deal with noise from another house next to me (babies; crying, people arguing, parties going way too late in the night. Heck I once herd some kids wonder if I had a swimming pool in my house because they hear me running my bath! I would not want to be any closer to my next door neighbors. ).
Why wouldn't soundproofing work?
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Why is it this way? Are the newer examples further spaced because of a much lower demand for density?
Yes, basically.
See here: Short history of HOAs, city zoning, and government regulations reguarding city building in the US from the 1900's - 2000. Also look up how the US has laws against 'jaywalking' and where they came from.

Social striving propels the drive-only suburban machine | Better! Cities & Towns Online
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Why wouldn't soundproofing work?
Who is going to pay to install it once you have bought the house? There are no requirements to install it, so contractors don't.

In addition having a little space in the front or back yard is NICE. I grew up in an city and I used to love going out to the burbs to play in relatives back yards. There was so much space. I mean compared to being pretty much constrained to an concrete alley it was great to be able to run around in more than two directions or be able to throw an ball without worrying about breaking an window. Sure we had an back yard, but no kid over the age of 5 would be happy in so little space.

It is nice to be able to garden, grow your own flowers/plants trees. Have your own outdoor space to do with as you please. Outdoor space around an house sells. I suspect those older houses were built as rentals or are apartments. It was much more common for people to rent before the 50ies.

The area I grew up in had backyards a bit bigger than the one in the "new picture" but also had a building right next to us on one side and the gangway on the other. Some windows in my house were not very useful due to the fact that there was an building on that side. Leaves would collect between the buildings and you would have to rake them into the house to clear. It really wasn't pleasant. In addition squirrels, rats and kittens used to get between the buildings and I was loth to open those windows for that reason. Imagine having to worry about if there will be an RAT in your bedroom if you open the window on an hot summer night and trust me those old windows with no built in screens were not helpful in that regard.The whole house was rather dreary when it came to natural lighting because there was no space on one side, and not much space on the other and the building faced north.

My bedroom had no windows that let in sun and in case of fire(which is the reason why there are codes regarding windows in bedrooms) I didn't have much of an secondary escape. I had an 2nd window which was in an wall that separated my room from the vestibule, but I could just as well go around my door and leave the same way. If there was an fire near my door I would have to pray it wasn't in the vestibule also cause there was no other way out.

Not to mention the bathroom window, which at best you could only crack open a little. If you fully opened it or even opened it by half, the neighbors would be able see directly inside from their own window right next door. As the house was older it didn't have an fan in the bathroom either, or for a time air conditioning.

Then again my mothers windows. She had two. One like mine blocked by the building and one that like the bathroom window had a view into her room. So she again had to worry about giving the next door neighbors an view of her room. At least she could in theory get out her window in case of fire....if the fire department could get into the neighbor's yard. It wasn't accessible or visible from the street which is also an safety concern in terms of fire.

In addition I suspect there are fire codes that put a min. distance between buildings(and that might have changed). There are also codes about how a building should be constructed that might have changed as a long time ago it was perfectly legal to throw a huge family in an space without enough bedrooms, an shared bathroom(with the building) and not many windows.

In short you really DO want some space between you and your neighbor if possible.

Last edited by chirack; 05-07-2014 at 05:31 PM..
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