U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-28-2014, 03:40 AM
 
12,302 posts, read 15,205,734 times
Reputation: 8109

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
The guy with a second car downtown could probably save a lot of money and aggravation with a Zipcar membership, but if it works for them, hey, oh well. Not sure if I understand the principle of this thread--a "reverse commuter" on public transit is a wonderful position to be in, they're usually riding when it is least crowded.
Not all are "reverse" commuters, but not the market normally associated with commuter rail (or express bus). Needless to say it mostly occurs where there is considerable distance involved. You won't see it in cities that have merely a five-mile light rail test track.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-28-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
It is an article of faith for many on this forum (and sadly, for many transit agencies) that the only ones who ride trains and buses are headed to the Center City. Or that anyone with a vehicle available for the trip will drive it. However, talking to commuters I have found a lot of exceptions. Quite a few drive to the outlying station and ride the train to the suburb where they work. One took the step of even stationing a car at the destination station for the last miles to the office - and having the two cars keyed alike! One even parks a car downtown, taking advantage of the lower nighttime rates. Some make transfers between lines. Is it just to save wear and tear on the car, or has driving become too much an aggravation these days?
I don't think it's an "article of faith" for transit planners. If anything, the challenge transportation planners face in many cities is that a critical mass of commuters isn't going into the central business district. It's more an issue of connecting several dispersed areas of employment by transit. That's not an easy thing to do.

And the reality is that most people do drive their cars to work (especially if parking is available). In 2006, only 24,525 Atlanta area commuters took any form of public transportation into the Atlanta CBD (14.2% of CBD workforce). In Boston, 126,735 did (52.2% of CBD workforce). Ridership to a large extent depends upon employment centralization and urban form.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Last edited by Yac; 04-01-2014 at 06:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 07:56 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And the reality is that most people do drive their cars to work (especially if parking is available). In 2006, only 24,525 Atlanta area commuters took any form of public transportation into the Atlanta CBD (14.2% of CBD workforce). In Boston, 126,735 did (52.2% of CBD workforce). Ridership to a large extent depends upon employment centralization and urban form.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
MARTA rail has 227,000 weekday passengers. Assuming each takes the train twice a day, then that's over 4x the number of CBD transit commuters. And that's ignoring any CBD bound bus riders. So if your numbers are right, a large portion of MARTA's ridership isn't CBD bound or the CBD is defined very narrowly. Similar with Boston, though I'd guess a large number of non-commuter rail riders may be using transit for non-CBD trips.

Last edited by Yac; 04-01-2014 at 06:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 08:13 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,176,306 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
MARTA rail has 227,000 weekday passengers. Assuming each takes the train twice a day, then that's over 4x the number of CBD transit commuters. And that's ignoring any CBD bound bus riders. So if your numbers are right, a large portion of MARTA's ridership isn't CBD bound or the CBD is defined very narrowly. Similar with Boston, though I'd guess a large number of non-commuter rail riders may be using transit for non-CBD trips.
an issue with the ATL number may be that Buckhead and Midtown are not considered the CBD yet likely have similar PT ridership levels to the ATL CBD

so my guess is the CBD is defined narrowly on this specific metric
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 09:39 AM
 
2,890 posts, read 5,394,153 times
Reputation: 4611
I don't get a whole lot of "me" time, so I'd rather spend a 45 minute commute reading a book, than driving.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
MARTA rail has 227,000 weekday passengers. Assuming each takes the train twice a day, then that's over 4x the number of CBD transit commuters. And that's ignoring any CBD bound bus riders. So if your numbers are right, a large portion of MARTA's ridership isn't CBD bound or the CBD is defined very narrowly. Similar with Boston, though I'd guess a large number of non-commuter rail riders may be using transit for non-CBD trips.
30% of transit commuters are traveling to the Atlanta CBD (See Table 4, Page 8). But the CBD in any city is going to be very small (typically no more than 2 sq. miles or so). Most will be traveling to places that are fairly close to the CBD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissNM View Post
I don't get a whole lot of "me" time, so I'd rather spend a 45 minute commute reading a book, than driving.
It's nice you have that luxury. A lot of people need to pick up kids from daycare and get to second jobs and driving is usually the most efficient way to do those things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 11:23 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's nice you have that luxury. A lot of people need to pick up kids from daycare and get to second jobs and driving is usually the most efficient way to do those things.
Eh. My mom picked me up from daycare and she took the train to work. She still had a car, and the daycare was almost on the way from the train station to home. Even if it weren't, it would be a short trip from home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Eh. My mom picked me up from daycare and she took the train to work. She still had a car, and the daycare was almost on the way from the train station to home. Even if it weren't, it would be a short trip from home.
You also said that your mother worked in Midtown, which is not exactly someplace most people can easily park a car during work hours (or any time for that matter). I'm talking about people living in more typically American cities (which NYC is not).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2014, 01:56 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,861,397 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You also said that your mother worked in Midtown, which is not exactly someplace most people can easily park a car during work hours (or any time for that matter). I'm talking about people living in more typically American cities (which NYC is not).
I agree with your premise but sometimes for burb to burb commutes or city to burb commutes people do use commuter rail. They drive to the station and park. Over longer distances, if the train has got an better route to your destination it can be a better idea. It was about an hour ride to the burb I used to work in via train, but it would also be an hour drive. An hour ride is better than an hour drive with some of it snarled in traffic.

Also if you happen to live near the station in the burbs then again it could be a cheaper way to travel. In that case you might walk or drive to the station esp. if the route you need to drive has an lot of traffic but while that core may have some small scale retail it lacks huge employment centers like office parks.

What sucks is that commuter rail isn't like rapid transit. With an Rapid transit system like the El there is no favoritism towards trips in either direction. With commuter rail the trains give less service in the direction of the reverse commute which can give fewer times when it is convenient. Other groups that sometimes use commuter rail are like suburban teenagers who want to go downtown in an group but can't drive.

I think more people would use commuter rail if there were more options for transit in the burbs but there are burbs that either lack sidewalks or have limited sidewalks and stations that lack bus service and what bus service there is limited. Anyway often the rail station is in the core of the old small town the grew into an post WWII burb.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top