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Old 04-06-2014, 03:33 PM
 
3,730 posts, read 2,206,981 times
Reputation: 4183

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, all my female relatives cooked for whole families and so did I! Not sure what the point of that is.

That article really does seem more opinion than fact. I'm not interested in taking the time to look into it real closely, but let's say I'm not buying it. His constant use of "disposable" is annoying.

This: As a property developer my buildings must be energy efficient and I need to make a fair profit. I can't get either if I replace original windows. is a crock of compost.

As a property developer his buildings need to conform to code, and since he is a historic property developer, his buildings likely get a pass on some of the code. Even when we remodeled our house, we didn't need to bring the basement windows up to present code; we had to modify them to something partway between the code when the house was built and when we were doing the remodeling.

No one is arguing he needs to make a profit. I don't know why he put that in there. Yeah, it's cheaper for him not to replace the windows. Windows are expensive. I'll take my resident physicist/engineer's calculations over this ego-maniac's any day.
My point about cooking was that you said it was different when you are cooking for families. Wile I don't cook for families, I know people who have and do in smaller and "not to spec" kitchens (per that triangle article). That's all. Again, it's something that some people have no problem with and some do (as seen here).

As for the windows, if you'd bothered to read it, he mentioned the huge variance in costs between fixing and replacing, and even mentioned what the ROI is for both. Which has been a point brought up more than once in this thread.

Again, some people just have to have new, and others know many things can be fixed rather than replaced, often at a huge savings.

What were the numbers your physicist/engineer came up with? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely interested. Again, I personally know someone who invested 16k in all new windows and siding. That will never be regained in their lifetime. You yourself said your replacements were expensive.

Nybbler, if you're replacing windows in an old house, they are often not the same size as off the shelf. Meaning you have to have custom ones made which increases cost, or do modifications to the frame and/or siding and/or plaster. Which also increases cost. For me, and others here, simply reglazing and repairing our original windows (many of which are 60-100+ years old) is more cost effective.

I doubt you'll find 60 year old vinyl replacement windows kicking around 60 years from now. Especially with an intact window seal.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:59 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,024 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLoveTo View Post
My point about cooking was that you said it was different when you are cooking for families. Wile I don't cook for families, I know people who have and do in smaller and "not to spec" kitchens (per that triangle article). That's all. Again, it's something that some people have no problem with and some do (as seen here).

As for the windows, if you'd bothered to read it, he mentioned the huge variance in costs between fixing and replacing, and even mentioned what the ROI is for both. Which has been a point brought up more than once in this thread.

Again, some people just have to have new, and others know many things can be fixed rather than replaced, often at a huge savings.

What were the numbers your physicist/engineer came up with? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely interested. Again, I personally know someone who invested 16k in all new windows and siding. That will never be regained in their lifetime. You yourself said your replacements were expensive.

Nybbler, if you're replacing windows in an old house, they are often not the same size as off the shelf. Meaning you have to have custom ones made which increases cost, or do modifications to the frame and/or siding and/or plaster. Which also increases cost. For me, and others here, simply reglazing and repairing our original windows (many of which are 60-100+ years old) is more cost effective.

I doubt you'll find 60 year old vinyl replacement windows kicking around 60 years from now. Especially with an intact window seal.
Well, of course people cooked in the "not to spec" kitchens. MY grandmother in Wisconsin cooked on a wood stove! It just makes it a darn sight easier to prepare a meal and clean up if the kitchen is arranged for efficiency, rather than "quaintness".

I read the whole damned article! The guy sounded like a know it all.

I don't see the world as such a dichotomy as you appear to.

I don't have DH's numbers any more; we replaced the windows several years ago. He does have a PhD in physics and also worked for a solar company for a while, so I think he knows what he's doing. It didn't matter to us if we never saw the entire ROI. The house feels better. It looks better. And we're saving energy. And if, and this is a big if, we ever sell the house, we'll probably get some benefit from our investment at that time. It's far more likely our kids will be the beneficiaries of that, though.

You keep talking about vinyl windows. Not all windows on the market today are vinyl. Ours aren't, and the previous windows from 1980 were not, either.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:21 PM
 
3,730 posts, read 2,206,981 times
Reputation: 4183
Sorry, but you sure seem as close-minded as I'm sure you see me.

Apologies for the vinyl comment. You're right, there are many more options. And they're usually more expensive

But hey, show me the numbers. Prove me wrong. I can't argue with your house feeling better. But I know a replacement window roughly the size I have costs about $200 from the local big box store. I have 32 windows in the house and 4 in the basement. Even doing the installs myself, I will NEVER recoup the financial outlay in heat savings. And there would be no other reason for me to do so. They won't look better on my house.

Is your house from 1980? I can't remember, or maybe you never said.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,024 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLoveTo View Post
Sorry, but you sure seem as close-minded as I'm sure you see me.

Apologies for the vinyl comment. You're right, there are many more options. And they're usually more expensive

But hey, show me the numbers. Prove me wrong. I can't argue with your house feeling better. But I know a replacement window roughly the size I have costs about $200 from the local big box store. I have 32 windows in the house and 4 in the basement. Even doing the installs myself, I will NEVER recoup the financial outlay in heat savings. And there would be no other reason for me to do so. They won't look better on my house.

Is your house from 1980? I can't remember, or maybe you never said.
Thanks for the compliment. I think I know BS when I see it, and that article is BS. I was not the only poster who thought so.

We didn't buy the windows at Home Depot or other big-box, we bought them from Andersen (sp?). Yes, the house is from 1980.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:38 PM
 
3,730 posts, read 2,206,981 times
Reputation: 4183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Thanks for the compliment. I think I know BS when I see it, and that article is BS. I was not the only poster who thought so.

We didn't buy the windows at Home Depot or other big-box, we bought them from Andersen (sp?). Yes, the house is from 1980.
Yes, the one other person who's posted since I posted that, besides you. There are other articles out there. And for each one I find, I'm sure you or someone can find another by someone promoting the advantages of replacement windows. Stalemate.

I didn't think you bought yours at a big box. You said they cost a lot. My point is the least amount I can replace mine for is roughly $200 each. (If they even fit correctly)

So if your house is from 1980, can we suggest you've answered your own question on newer housing being "disposable"? After all, you've replaced your windows because they make the house feel and look better and there is some sort of ROI. However, my almost 100 year old house is still going strong with its original old wooden windows.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,024 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLoveTo View Post
Yes, the one other person who's posted since I posted that, besides you. There are other articles out there. And for each one I find, I'm sure you or someone can find another by someone promoting the advantages of replacement windows. Stalemate.

I didn't think you bought yours at a big box. You said they cost a lot. My point is the least amount I can replace mine for is roughly $200 each. (If they even fit correctly)

So if your house is from 1980, can we suggest you've answered your own question on newer housing being "disposable"? After all, you've replaced your windows because they make the house feel and look better and there is some sort of ROI. However, my almost 100 year old house is still going strong with its original old wooden windows.
Aha! The "gotcha". Except. . . we replaced these windows b/c we wanted to. There was nothing terribly wrong with the old windows, they were wood windows as well, and the frames weren't rotting or anything drastic like that. We were doing a remodel job and we reconfigured some windows as well.

We ARE energy conscious. We did it mostly to save energy, and to improve the look and feel of the house.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:11 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,857,889 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Nybbler, if you're replacing windows in an old house, they are often not the same size as off the shelf. Meaning you have to have custom ones made which increases cost, or do modifications to the frame and/or siding and/or plaster. Which also increases cost. For me, and others here, simply reglazing and repairing our original windows (many of which are 60-100+ years old) is more cost effective.
Replacement windows are typically custom sizes. All of mine were. But if you want wood rather than vinyl you'll pay a lot more. The Andersen wood windows are really nice but extremely expensive.

Quote:
I doubt you'll find 60 year old vinyl replacement windows kicking around 60 years from now. Especially with an intact window seal.
I doubt I'll still be around in 60 years to tell you. I can tell you the 50+ year wood windows I replaced didn't have anything approaching a seal; the wind blew right through them. As I said, they were 6 over 6; that would have been a lot of reglazing, and they'd still have been single pane with lousy seals.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,079 posts, read 16,109,257 times
Reputation: 12652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Aha! The "gotcha". Except. . . we replaced these windows b/c we wanted to. There was nothing terribly wrong with the old windows, they were wood windows as well, and the frames weren't rotting or anything drastic like that. We were doing a remodel job and we reconfigured some windows as well.

We ARE energy conscious. We did it mostly to save energy, and to improve the look and feel of the house.
Stupid, considering your house will fall down in exactly 30 years. It isn't even worth replacing faucets on these new disposable houses. Just get a bulldozer and start over when something goes wrong.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:50 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,024 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Stupid, considering your house will fall down in exactly 30 years. It isn't even worth replacing faucets on these new disposable houses. Just get a bulldozer and start over when something goes wrong.
Funny, it's already 34 years old. I better get on the bulldozer list.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,079 posts, read 16,109,257 times
Reputation: 12652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Funny, it's already 34 years old. I better get on the bulldozer list.
Yeah. House that I'm not living in since it fell down was built in the '70s. Still has the original aluminum windows. Borrowed time for both of us, I suppose. Any day now a light bulb will go out and they'll be at our doorsteps with the bulldozers after condemning our ramshackle abodes as public safety hazard. I mean, all it'd take is a strong gust of wind and our disposable housing could be our coffin.
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