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Old 04-03-2014, 06:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As I mentioned before, many eastern residential neighborhoods are more spread out than typical western ones. You can find plenty with no commercial areas in walking distance.
But most Americans don't live in those places.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:37 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
But most Americans don't live in those places.
They don't? They don't live in suburban Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC (proceeding N to S)? Boston in particular has huge suburban lots.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
How much is its farebox recovery ratio? Does it come close to breaking even?
I believe it is about 95%.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,740,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
........We can have top-rate electric rapid-transit rail, and trams, all over the most countries towns and cities as they are self-funding. Towns can then be cleaned up by de-motorising with large, imposing, district ruining, urban roads closed, or roads made narrower with parts of them turned over to tram throughways, and the street pattern put back to an attractive human scale, as they once were before the hearts were ripped out of them for cars.
Spoken like a true believer, that is, like a religious zealot/fanatic. Cars are bad, period. "De-motorizing" equals "cleaning up" towns. At least you are not trying to hide or sugar-coat your biases and hostility.

The immense popularity of the private automobile is proof that most people prefer it. Therefore attempts to destroy its use, as you propose here, are doomed to failure in any truly democratic society. Such attempts can succeed only where the will of the majority can be ignored.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:13 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post

The immense popularity of the private automobile is proof that most people prefer it. Therefore attempts to destroy its use, as you propose here, are doomed to failure in any truly democratic society. Such attempts can succeed only where the will of the majority can be ignored.
People use whatever mode of transportation works best for them in the location and the design of the location.

In dense cities, automobiles have large negatives. Increased pollution and noise, makes the envirnoment less practical for non-car users. Zurich restricted space for cars with popular support:

The Transit Metropolis: A Global Inquiry - Robert Cervero - Google Books
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
They don't? They don't live in suburban Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC (proceeding N to S)? Boston in particular has huge suburban lots.
No - the majority of americans don't live in a place where there are no commercial areas within a 10 minute walk.

Those neighborhoods might take up the majority of land area in metropolitan areas but that doesn't mean that the majority of americans live in those places.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,740,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
People use whatever mode of transportation works best for them in the location and the design of the location.

In dense cities, automobiles have large negatives. Increased pollution and noise, makes the envirnoment less practical for non-car users. Zurich restricted space for cars with popular support:

The Transit Metropolis: A Global Inquiry - Robert Cervero - Google Books
I certainly accept your point about Zurich. If there is popular support for such measures there, then I agree that the measures are legitimate. However, the poster to whom I was responding was talking in generalized terms, and so I answered him in generalized terms.

Also, I agree with your first sentence. I am not against transit, and I am not against the people who use it. Perhaps an analogy would make my original point clearer:

Suppose I were to propose the creation of artificial barriers and impediments to public transit, such as absurdly low speed limits for rail, or a requirement for a station every half mile. And suppose the motivation behind those requirements was simply to kill or severely restrict transit. That would be analogous to what the other poster was suggesting in regard to cars.

In areas where congestion creates disincentives to driving, transit is a natural solution. It is a total absurdity, however, to seek government imposed additional disincentives to driving, that is, additional to the naturally occurring ones. Such ideologically motivated disincentives include narrowing of existing roads and installation of speed bumps. This can only come from an irrational and generalized hostility to cars per se, the "cars are intrinsically bad" nonsense.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:10 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
No - the majority of americans don't live in a place where there are no commercial areas within a 10 minute walk.

Those neighborhoods might take up the majority of land area in metropolitan areas but that doesn't mean that the majority of americans live in those places.
That second statement could confuse a Philadelphia lawyer, as we liked to say in Pittsburgh. I'd like to see some stats on that. I live more than a 10 min. walk from a commercial area, and I live in a fairly compact town.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:15 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That second statement could confuse a Philadelphia lawyer, as we liked to say in Pittsburgh.
Not sure why that's so confusing, the similar land vs people distribution has been discussed often on this forum. Another similar situation would be a county with uneven land distribution would be Nassau County. Almost a third of the land is very large lot with some gaps in development. Not many people live there, barely over a third.

Quote:
I'd like to see some stats on that. I live more than a 10 min. walk from a commercial area, and I live in a fairly compact town.
Being that far seems rather sprawly to me, but I consider most of the country rather sprawly. But weren't there posts on how most suburbs have some stuff in walking distance?

No idea where you could find stats on that.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:22 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Not sure why that's so confusing, the similar land vs people distribution has been discussed often on this forum. Another similar situation would be a county with uneven land distribution would be Nassau County. Almost a third of the land is very large lot with some gaps in development. Not many people live there, barely over a third.



Being that far seems rather sprawly to me, but I consider most of the country rather sprawly. But weren't there posts on how most suburbs have some stuff in walking distance?

No idea where you could find stats on that.
The majority of Americans live in the suburbs. That's a documented fact. We have people carrying on here about how the suburbs have no commercial areas. While I disagree with that, a 10 min. walk is a pretty high bar. That's about 1/2 mile.
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