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I'd guess a "plaza" is about the same thing as a bowling green, since Wiki listed a lot of synonyms, that being one of them. See how much you can learn on CD? Have you ever been to Saratoga Springs, NY? They have some sort of "green".
No, sounds like a nice town to check out. I'm in that area maybe once or twice a year, maybe I could make a side trip that ways.
Or we can make cities more pedestrian, bike, and transit friendly to reduce the need for auto traffic.
As far as I can tell, pedestrians, bikes, trolleys (noisy!!!) and buses (noisy!!!! and smelly!!!!!!) use the same routes around the parks - erm, excuse me, town squares - as cars.
Traffic noise has never diminished my enjoyment of the central gathering place.
Funny how the same people who celebrate eating dinner a few yards from traffic at sidewalk cafes would shudder at the noise of traffic experienced from deep inside a city park. Consistency, thou art a jewel.
As far as I can tell, pedestrians, bikes, trolleys (noisy!!!) and buses (noisy!!!! and smelly!!!!!!) use the same routes around the parks - erm, excuse me, town squares - as cars.
Traffic noise has never diminished my enjoyment of the central gathering place.
Funny how the same people who celebrate eating dinner a few yards from traffic at sidewalk cafes would shudder at the noise of traffic experienced from deep inside a city park. Consistency, thou art a jewel.
Trains aren't always noisy, the MAX and Portland Streetcar are both pretty quiet. As for buses, they can be noisy, but only in high numbers, as for smelly, it depends on the type of bus. In Portland's case it isn't really a big deal, one can really enjoy hanging out and people watching in the Square without having surrounding noises be too much of an issue.
Outdoor space for cafes do better in walkable communities than they do on big busy roads, but that is off topic, so if we could keep this about town squares specifically, that would be great.
Public, er, squares can be a good place for kids to play when they are out with their parents in the downtown. Far better than kids playing in traffic.
Funny how the same people who celebrate eating dinner a few yards from traffic at sidewalk cafes would shudder at the noise of traffic experienced from deep inside a city park. Consistency, thou art a jewel.
See the previous post I made (on page 9).
Sitting by a relatively quiet (car-trafficed) and eating on a sidewalk cafe is nice. Sitting on a noisy, very busy one is not. Being in a park (or public square) with a bit of a light traffic sound isn't too bad. Having the car traffic so loud that was always present background rumble is not. Large parks I'd expect to be quieter as they're supposed to be natural more so than a sidewalk cafe or public square. Not sure why this is so odd, or inconsistent. Or why this got so much argument.
Last edited by nei; 04-05-2014 at 05:52 PM..
Reason: fixed typos
I don't know of too many sidewalk cafes that aren't on a main drag. That's my experience. Vilify it all you want, but it doesn't change it.
The constant moving of goalposts and changing of definitions in this thread has been quite irritating.
Are those sidewalk cafes busy? And what do you consider to be a "main drag?" Are those cafes on big 4-6 lane roads with lots of cars running up and down them.
Goalposts, shmoalposts. It's a big country, and easy to find examples of sidewalk cafes on busy or quiet streets, parks that are on busy or quiet streets, and people who like one or the other, or both under different circumstances.
Of the half-dozen Sacramento city parks that I posted, all are of the tree-lined variety, with varying levels of concrete coverage but all with at least some grass, in part as a response to a specific climate (our one experiment with concrete hardscape and no tree cover, the K Street pedestrian mall, was a huge flop in part because concrete with no shade gets hot enough to fry the proverbial egg.) Some are busy (or, during free concerts, very busy) and others are relatively quiet--but they both have uses, and often appeal to the same people at different times. Those folks might enjoy a loud nightclub one night, or a quiet cafe another; or a bustling street fair in one park, or a solitary stroll among the trees in another (or the same park on a different day.) The secret to cities is variety and choice, there is no single best way to do things!
Antwerp is one of the European cities I am really fascinated with when it comes to their squares. They have a number of them throughout the city. This is the Grote Markt Town Square, it is the location of the Town Hall and the Church of St Peter. In the European sense, it incorporates all sorts of things, but still manages to put pedestrians first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grote_Markt_(Leuven)
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