U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,265 posts, read 26,231,676 times
Reputation: 11726

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That is true, Manhattan is a unique city for the US. Though I remember parking being insanely high in downtown Seattle.
Take a look at Table 7 in this document.

http://www.demographia.com/db-cbd2000.pdf

76.6% of the people working in either the Midtown or Downtown CBD commute by transit. 37% of Seattle CBD workers commute by transit (respectable).

Table 6 ranks MSAs by percentage of regional employment in the CBD. New York leads by a long shot. 5 of the nation's "legacy" transit cities are in the Top 10. Philly ranks 14th, which is at least one reason that its transit ridership lags behind Boston's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,947,535 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Yup, and the people living in cities that the urbanistas deride as "sprawl" also get to live in a place they can enjoy instead of being crammed together like hamsters with zero personal space.
While some people here find it hard believe that some people actually enjoy "sprawl" and prefer to live in it, you're suffering for the opposite issue: there's are also people that actually enjoy being in dense, urban areas. There are also plenty of people that aren't that particular either way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:13 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,947,535 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Take a look at Table 7 in this document.

http://www.demographia.com/db-cbd2000.pdf

76.6% of the people working in either the Midtown or Downtown CBD commute by transit. 37% of Seattle CBD workers commute by transit (respectable).

Table 6 ranks MSAs by percentage of regional employment in the CBD. New York leads by a long shot. 5 of the nation's "legacy" transit cities are in the Top 10. Philly ranks 14th, which is at least one reason that its transit ridership lags behind Boston's.
This blog post has more recent info:

More Downtown Commuters Choosing Transit, Walking, Biking

As for Boston, near-CBD locations such as Kendall Square get substantial transit usage though not as much as a downtown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:18 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,349,202 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
While some people here find it hard believe that some people actually enjoy "sprawl" and prefer to live in it, you're suffering for the opposite issue: there's are also people that actually enjoy being in dense, urban areas. There are also plenty of people that aren't that particular either way.
Perhaps but the numbers do not support the claims about the "benefits" of high density housing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:35 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
For Metra, do the trains run 30 minutes to an hour behind schedule with delays?

As for the El, that is an example of a neglected system over the years, that rail system needs a massive overhaul to be on part with modern technology.

Also 7-8 minutes between trains sounds like it's normal schedule than it does delays, so I am confused with that point you are trying to make.

Though I will ask, are those Metra and El trains full during those rush hour commute times?
No, Metra is on time but it is commuter rail so the trains are 20-30 mins to an hour apart. Problems on one train don't effect others as much esp. outside of rush since there maybe 20-30 mins between trains. The only trouble Metra has is with Extreme cold(It messes with switches and other equipment).

The El only has 7-8 min. head ways between trains. This means that a delay on one train will effect the others down the line. The train can be delayed for many reasons beyond an aging system or old equipment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:00 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Just rail, though after Sandy I had to rely on the bus for a while. There were good days and bad days with the bus due to traffic. My commute to work is 45 minutes. Between trains? We have a more complicated commute than most, our first train it is a 10-12 minute walk to, which the train shows up a couple minutes later depending on how fast we initially walked. Our second train it takes us about 5 minutes to get from the surface down to the platform, then it is no more than a minute or two wait, then the third train it is about another 5-7 minute walk to the next train which we have to wait no more than a minute or two, and then there is another 10 minute walk to work.
Your route isn't typical of public transit users elsewhere. In general there are jobs outside of the CBD of Chicago, lots of them and so an rail line might not be close, even when you do use the train you could be out of walking distance to station.

For instance lets say you worked at the Ford Plant in Chicago or the Former Nabisco bakery(don't know who owns it now). The EL is not near it, nor near Beverly, even in the "Transit friendly" north side, you still need buses ether to get to an train or to get to another bus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No, Metra is on time but it is commuter rail so the trains are 20-30 mins to an hour apart. Problems on one train don't effect others as much esp. outside of rush since there maybe 20-30 mins between trains. The only trouble Metra has is with Extreme cold(It messes with switches and other equipment).

The El only has 7-8 min. head ways between trains. This means that a delay on one train will effect the others down the line. The train can be delayed for many reasons beyond an aging system or old equipment.
Well with Metra, if you know the schedule why would one stand waiting for a train for 30 minutes to an hour when they could just plan that into the time they leave for the Metra? My wife and I catch the same trains every morning because we plan our time when we leave the house.

It sounds like the an El train could be delayed for a few minutes without messing up all the other trains, plus there are ways to correct rail delays. If it is that common in Chicago, then there are specific reasons for that that they should be addressing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:03 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,947,535 times
Reputation: 14804
Hmm. The LIRR occasionally gets congestion related delays but most of the lines merge into one trunk line, whereas Metra doesn't. But even Metra has far higher frequencies than 20-30 minutes during rush hour for just one line:

Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) Schedule

The schedule design seems less friendly to inter-suburb trips at rush hour compared to say, Metro North, which has local trains, sometimes requiring a transfer.

7-8 minutes should cause delays much unless the scheduling gets well out of whack. A few NYC subway lines have 2 minute headways on rush hour, where people blocking the doors can risk causing delays. The Red line has a 3-6 minute rush hour headway.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets...edules/red.pdf

Vancouver's SkyTrain runs at 2-3 minute headways one line with automated trains. I wonder if it's rather reliable as it's a new system.

TransLink - Transit Schedules

Part of the reason for high off peak frequency is the trains are short; some are run in a 2 car configuration. Without a driver, it doesn't cost more to run trains more often if you shorten them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Your route isn't typical of public transit users elsewhere. In general there are jobs outside of the CBD of Chicago, lots of them and so an rail line might not be close, even when you do use the train you could be out of walking distance to station.

For instance lets say you worked at the Ford Plant in Chicago or the Former Nabisco bakery(don't know who owns it now). The EL is not near it, nor near Beverly, even in the "Transit friendly" north side, you still need buses ether to get to an train or to get to another bus.
Chicago's rail is designed to get people in and our of the Loop, had the system continued to develop rather than been reduced and basically ignored during the mid century, Chicago would have a much more complex system roday.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:07 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Well with Metra, if you know the schedule why would one stand waiting for a train for 30 minutes to an hour when they could just plan that into the time they leave for the Metra? My wife and I catch the same trains every morning because we plan our time when we leave the house.
It is commuter rail, you won't be waiting around for the next train. However if there is 30-1 hour between trains it could be faster to drive.

Quote:
It sounds like the an El train could be delayed for a few minutes without messing up all the other trains, plus there are ways to correct rail delays. If it is that common in Chicago, then there are specific reasons for that that they should be addressing.
Like what ban baby strollers which are slow to get on board? Cancel Cub games? Tell the throngs of people who are overloading the train go elsewhere? When there is only about 7-8 mins between trains and if each stop takes 1-2 mins. longer than planed, delays will creep in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top