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Old 04-10-2014, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
We're they crossing in the crosswalk? My bet is the driver wasn't paying attention to their surroundings properly.
or the pedestrian was trying to commit suicide or wearing dark clothing and crossing in a badly lit area, all of the above occur. You also have pedestrians that try running across freeway on ramps and off ramps. I saw one idiot attempt that, trip and fall, and I thought he was going to be giving cars a bad rap that day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Also, I doubt I could build a 10 story building in your neighborhood with no parking because where you live probably has regulations against that, which are the regulations used to promote suburban development where you live. Do you not know your area's zoning codes?
Define "suburban".
By "regulation" are you referring to laws or ordinances/codes or are you referring to restrictive covenants?
Define "neighborhood". Are you referring to a platted subdivision? Are you referring to a general geographic area?

You (well probably not you particularly) could build a ten story building in the general area I live in. There are no prohibitions against such a thing.

If you want to make the building open to the public you will likely need parking spaces if you expect any kind of customer base. If the property is intended to be residential, the owners are going to expect parking spaces unless you are perhaps talking about an assisted living home or something. I doubt there is much of a local government requirement on parking spaces. I don't really need to check one way or the other because I wouldn't be foolish enough to build one without parking spaces to accommodate the intended use. With very few exceptions, zoning tends to be a city function and unless your property is in the city you aren't subject to them.

Now if you go to the city, you will likely encounter problems with the height and the number of parking spaces because we all know that urban planners know best what building envelopes are compatible with the "urban fabric". Aside from annoying property owners and causing litigation, this often results in parking spaces too small for most practical purposes anyway.

Quote:
Actually I have never mentioned events, that is something you keep bringing up. All places with people living there have events. Not sure what that has to do with this thread though.
You previously stated "Well there are usually more things going on in an urban core and city than there are in the suburbs." Feel free to define "things going on" if you are going to complain about how people interpret your terminology.
Ref: http://www.city-data.com/forum/34293266-post153.html

Quote:
Speaking of this thread, why do you use transit?
If you wanted to stay on topic you wouldn't have inquired about the ability to build ten story buildings or questioned my knowledge about zoning. A car is perhaps the most versatile form of transit there is. Larger cars can transport more people. Buses can transport even more although the versatility tends to decrease with the increased capacity. Cars transport lots of people. I drive a car to get from one place to another.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
"Areas that support parking" - so local government mandates that force property owners to provide a certain amount of parking?
You find that in your precious city, not outside the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
The same kind of government dependency you hypocritically attack when it's not to promote the lifestyle you prefer.
Not sure where the government dependency claim/cause is being made. I'm not looking for the government to promote a "lifestyle". Private government is even worse. Many city subdivisions have both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
I don't support mandates either way. I prefer the urban, transit-oriented lifestyle, but I don't support, and vote against, regulations and mandates for it.
But you'll have to pay for it if you live within the taxing jurisdiction of the transit authority regardless of whether there is decent access for you. Perhaps more problematic with ad valorem taxatation as opposed to sales tax where the transit authority benefits from purchasers that don't live or commute in the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
Why don't anti-urbanists who claim suburban sprawl is the product of consumer demand oppose the height restrictions, minimum parking regulations, zoning rules, etc. that artificially suppress density?
"anti-urbanists"? I live in an area to avoid the urbanists and all the problems, restrictions, taxes, crime, bad schools, etc. that tend to accompany the "urban lifestyle". We don't have those restrictions where I live. If they have them where you live why don't you either move to a place that doesn't have them or fight them where you are instead of arguing with me and expecting outsiders to solve your problem. I thought it was a democracy there, huh? Not so much - another reason to avoid the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
To relate back to the topic of the thread, people will use transit when an urban area is allowed to grow dense enough that transit becomes convenient. But in most parts of the country, it is illegal to build that kind of density.
There are work arounds that are easily employed. Perhaps the demand is simply not sufficient for the structures and legal regimes that are the product of the work around. Someone previously touted Dallas as having a fine transit system. What density do you believe is necessary? Cities may have an average density but the density can vary greatly within the city limits such that there is a significant standard deviation when the city is mapped on say 0.5 or 1.0 sq mile grids. Senselessly referring to "density" without recognizing the implications of significant variations is a downfall of the pro-mass-transit existence and routing arguments.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,893 posts, read 7,652,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
You find that in your precious city, not outside the city.



Not sure where the government dependency claim/cause is being made. I'm not looking for the government to promote a "lifestyle". Private government is even worse. Many city subdivisions have both.



But you'll have to pay for it if you live within the taxing jurisdiction of the transit authority regardless of whether there is decent access for you. Perhaps more problematic with ad valorem taxatation as opposed to sales tax where the transit authority benefits from purchasers that don't live or commute in the area.



"anti-urbanists"? I live in an area to avoid the urbanists and all the problems, restrictions, taxes, crime, bad schools, etc. that tend to accompany the "urban lifestyle". We don't have those restrictions where I live. If they have them where you live why don't you either move to a place that doesn't have them or fight them where you are instead of arguing with me and expecting outsiders to solve your problem. I thought it was a democracy there, huh? Not so much - another reason to avoid the city.


There are work arounds that are easily employed. Perhaps the demand is simply not sufficient for the structures and legal regimes that are the product of the work around. Someone previously touted Dallas as having a fine transit system. What density do you believe is necessary? Cities may have an average density but the density can vary greatly within the city limits such that there is a significant standard deviation when the city is mapped on say 0.5 or 1.0 sq mile grids. Senselessly referring to "density" without recognizing the implications of significant variations is a downfall of the pro-mass-transit existence and routing arguments.
Around here, even unincorporated townships have zoning regulations.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:28 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Around here, nothing is unincorporated.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,499,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
or the pedestrian was trying to commit suicide or wearing dark clothing and crossing in a badly lit area, all of the above occur. You also have pedestrians that try running across freeway on ramps and off ramps. I saw one idiot attempt that, trip and fall, and I thought he was going to be giving cars a bad rap that day.
Was it daytime? Night time? Were they in the cross walk? Jay walking? Did they leap out in front of the car? If a car hits a pedestrian, it is often times the driver's fault for not being aware of their surroundings.

Quote:
Define "suburban".
By "regulation" are you referring to laws or ordinances/codes or are you referring to restrictive covenants?
Define "neighborhood". Are you referring to a platted subdivision? Are you referring to a general geographic area?

You (well probably not you particularly) could build a ten story building in the general area I live in. There are no prohibitions against such a thing.

If you want to make the building open to the public you will likely need parking spaces if you expect any kind of customer base. If the property is intended to be residential, the owners are going to expect parking spaces unless you are perhaps talking about an assisted living home or something. I doubt there is much of a local government requirement on parking spaces. I don't really need to check one way or the other because I wouldn't be foolish enough to build one without parking spaces to accommodate the intended use. With very few exceptions, zoning tends to be a city function and unless your property is in the city you aren't subject to them.

Now if you go to the city, you will likely encounter problems with the height and the number of parking spaces because we all know that urban planners know best what building envelopes are compatible with the "urban fabric". Aside from annoying property owners and causing litigation, this often results in parking spaces too small for most practical purposes anyway.



You previously stated "Well there are usually more things going on in an urban core and city than there are in the suburbs." Feel free to define "things going on" if you are going to complain about how people interpret your terminology.
Ref: http://www.city-data.com/forum/34293266-post153.html


If you wanted to stay on topic you wouldn't have inquired about the ability to build ten story buildings or questioned my knowledge about zoning. A car is perhaps the most versatile form of transit there is. Larger cars can transport more people. Buses can transport even more although the versatility tends to decrease with the increased capacity. Cars transport lots of people. I drive a car to get from one place to another.
Well this is the definition of suburban when one googles the definition of suburban

Suburban

a : an outlying part of a city or town
b : a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city
c plural : the residential area on the outskirts of a city or large town


You have stated you live in an unincorporated area, which means you must abide by county zoning regulations. Often times that includes a minimum lot size per housing unit which would make it impossible to build anything urban where you live outside of a single family home and maybe a sprawling apartment complex.

Commercial buildings where you live have parking minimums which means they have to provide a number of spaces per sq ft of the commercial space which prevents anything beyond suburban commercial developments with parking lots surrounding them.

Parking spaces being too small?? Then that means you aren't capable of parking a large vehicle, I use to work as a valet for a hotel years ago and was capable of parking any size vehicle in our parking garage, and I am positive I have parked vehicles bigger than you have ever driven.

Cities, especially more densely populated cities tend to be more active than unincorporated outskirts that you live in, that has nothing to do with "events."

And again, this thread is about why people use transit, your car does not count as transit, it is a personal vehicle. There is a thread already for you for people that do not use transit.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,499,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
"anti-urbanists"? I live in an area to avoid the urbanists and all the problems, restrictions, taxes, crime, bad schools, etc. that tend to accompany the "urban lifestyle". We don't have those restrictions where I live. If they have them where you live why don't you either move to a place that doesn't have them or fight them where you are instead of arguing with me and expecting outsiders to solve your problem. I thought it was a democracy there, huh? Not so much - another reason to avoid the city.
For someone who says they avoid the urbanists, you sure seems to love posting on the Urban Planning forum a lot.

This forum would be more suited for someone who wants to avoid urbanists and all their problems.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/rural-small-town-living/
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Around here, even unincorporated townships have zoning regulations.
The fact that you call it a "township" suggests some sort of government as opposed to an unincorporated area.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,499,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
The fact that you call it a "township" suggests some sort of government as opposed to an unincorporated area.
Is your unincorporated place in a "county?"
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:03 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,347,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Was it daytime? Night time? Were they in the cross walk? Jay walking? Did they leap out in front of the car? If a car hits a pedestrian, it is often times the driver's fault for not being aware of their surroundings.
Dead is all that matters to the pedestrian.



Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Well this is the definition of suburban when one googles the definition of suburban

Suburban

a : an outlying part of a city or town
b : a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city
c plural : the residential area on the outskirts of a city or large town

You have stated you live in an unincorporated area, which means you must abide by county zoning regulations. Often times that includes a minimum lot size per housing unit which would make it impossible to build anything urban where you live outside of a single family home and maybe a sprawling apartment complex.
County doesn't have zoning regulations. County does have control over development. What this means is you can plan your "dense" living arrangement and I can put my ten story concrete plant next door and smile every morning. The county will attempt to impose lot size minimums for safety and health only. Even then there are workarounds as twice previously explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Commercial buildings where you live have parking minimums which means they have to provide a number of spaces per sq ft of the commercial space which prevents anything beyond suburban commercial developments with parking lots surrounding them.
Not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Parking spaces being too small?? Then that means you aren't capable of parking a large vehicle, I use to work as a valet for a hotel years ago and was capable of parking any size vehicle in our parking garage, and I am positive I have parked vehicles bigger than you have ever driven.
Yeah, one reason I don't like valet parking is because of the capable valets. Although I wouldn't agree that your being a valet means that you have parked vehicles bigger than I have ever driven...

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Cities, especially more densely populated cities tend to be more active than unincorporated outskirts that you live in, that has nothing to do with "events."
Maybe the downtown bar scene is more "active" than unincorporated outskirts but then it's probably more active that the urban residential areas too. So?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
And again, this thread is about why people use transit, your car does not count as transit, it is a personal vehicle. There is a thread already for you for people that do not use transit.
Well for someone that constantly plays games with definitions (suburb, parks vs. town squares, urban fabric, etc.) you sure spend a lot of time talking about bicycles which don't fall within your latest definition of transit. Given you are so fond of internet definitions (if it's on the internet it must be true), here is a definition of "transit":

tran·sit
ˈtranzit/
noun
noun: transit
  1. 1.
    the carrying of people, goods, or materials from one place to another.
    "a painting was damaged in transit"
    synonyms:transportation, transport, movement, flow, conveyance, shipping, shipment, trucking, carriage, transfer More"the transit of goods between states"


    en route, on the journey, on the way, on the road
    "the building supplies are in transit"




    • an act of passing through or across a place.
      "the first west-to-east transit of the Northwest Passage"

    • the conveyance of passengers on public transportation.
      synonyms:transportation, transport, mass transit, bus system, subway system More"public transit"




    • Astronomy
      the passage of an inferior planet across the face of the sun, or of a moon or its shadow across the face of a planet.
      plural noun: transits

    • Astronomy
      the apparent passage of a celestial body across the meridian of a place.

    • Astrology
      the passage of a celestial body through a specified sign, house, or area of a chart.




  2. 2.
    informal
    a tool used by surveyors to measure horizontal angles.




verb
verb: transit; 3rd person present: transits; past tense: transited; past participle: transited; gerund or present participle: transiting
  1. 1.
    pass across or through (an area).
    "the new large ships will be too big to transit the Panama Canal"

    • Astronomy
      (of a planet or other celestial body) pass across (a meridian or the face of another body).

    • Astrology
      (of a celestial body) pass across (a specified sign, house, or area of a chart).






Origin

late Middle English (denoting passage from one place to another): from Latin transitus, from transire ‘go across.’




Thus "transit" doesn't exclude cars. I ride transit - the form being a car. I do so to get from one place to another.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:12 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Not places I care to stay.
For most of the rest of the posters here - a distant pipe dream.

I see that "ample street parking" is one of the hidden messages in the promotional images for the Nathaniel in this article about Manhattan rentals and condos:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/re...e-up.html?_r=0
No idea how you get anything about ample street parking, it's not mentioned in the article. Whether you care for those places or not isn't relevant to whether they exist.


Quote:
You throw around the term "suburb" without defining it. Are you referring to a subdivision of real property? Are you referring to smaller cities? Are you referring to subdivisions of real property within a city? By its etymology the term is city-centric and a bit condescending leading to the continued perception of urbanists as self-absorbed elitists.

Unless the "suburb" is "in the city" where ordinances apply throughout, why wouldn't a "suburb" have fewer restrictions? The term "city" is ubiquitous with "restrictions".
I'm referring to suburbs as towns/places outside a large city but within a metropolitan area since we're referring to development restrictions. Suburb is a commonly used word, I see no reason to avoid using it. And no, why would a city be ubiquitous with "restrictions"? Suburbs have plenty of development and zoning restrictions? I'm rather confused by this idea In many, townhouse/condo developments are limited to select areas or nearly none at all. Btw, I've never lived in an area where unincorporated communities exist, evidently you're from another part of the country than me and you're generalizing.

Also, minimum lot sizes are usually for single family detached home areas. You can't build multifamily housing legally in those areas. In a place with a minimum lot size of 1/4 acre, or 1/2 acre or more desner housing is not permitted.

Quote:
By the way, how did transit fare for evacuating people out of the area during hurricane Sandy? What did the transit-dependent people do?
Evacuations were only needed for people living right near the shoreline. There were city shelters further away, I assumed they managed to get there while transit was still operating.
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