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Old 04-07-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
No form of transportation succeeds through consumer demand. With very few exceptions, everywhere in the country the transportation infrastructure is decided by the government, not the market.

If I live in NYC where transit tends to be more convenient than driving, I am no more "forced" to use transit than I am "forced" to use a car if I live in Houston where driving is more convenient than transit.

In both places the government, not consumer demand, shaped those decisions, whether it is a public subway system in NYC or government-built roads and minimum parking regulations in Houston.

So saying government mandates are why people use transit answers nothing because government mandates are why nearly 100% of people use any form of transportation.

What would the free market choose if allowed to work without government mandates? It might not choose NYC-style development but it is far from clear it would choose Houston-style development either.

I can think of one privately planned community with privately built roads, Reston, Va., and it is not urban, but at the same time, it is more walkable and denser than most suburbs in my opinion.
Off topic, but Reston is a great privately planned urban development.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
That's not what the article suggests. Instead it suggest that transit relies upon government mandates and deliberate discrimination against other modes of transportation in order to "succeed"
Much like cars rely on government mandates, buildings being required to have a number of parking spots, highway funding, etc. The key is to create a balance to best promote options of transportation.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,330,919 times
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I prefer transit, behind walking and biking (depending on the distance/route). Here are my reasons:

1. Much cheaper than owning a car.

2. Physical exercise mixed in with my commute. I hate sitting all day and then sitting in the car on the way home.

3. Less stressful. This one is subjective, depending on where you need to commute from and to. In other words, I could prefer a car commute over a transit commute, but all things being equal (15 min car commute vs. 25 transit commute), I'd take transit every time. If it came down to an hour transit commute, I would be less happy with it...but same thing with a car.

One thing to note here is that I find driving stressful and not everyone does. This is my preference because I find most car commuting hectic, dangerous and stressful. Highway merging, cars ripping across lanes, etc.

The big benefit for transit being that I get to read, listen to music and just relax and I don't have to manage my way through traffic.

4. I like walking out my front door and spending time outside. For me, it's a sense of freedom and every day feels less similar. I like taking different streets or lines and seeing different people, shops, architecture, etc.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,656,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
That's not what the article suggests. Instead it suggest that transit relies upon government mandates and deliberate discrimination against other modes of transportation in order to "succeed"
I haven't read the article, but I'm assuming you're referring to what you quoted in your first post in this thread?

I'm suggesting that the automobile "relies upon government mandates and deliberate discrimination against other modes of transportation in order to succeed." And, if all modes of transportation were treated equally, more people would choose to use transit.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:30 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,194,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
I prefer transit, behind walking and biking (depending on the distance/route). Here are my reasons:

1. Much cheaper than owning a car.

2. Physical exercise mixed in with my commute. I hate sitting all day and then sitting in the car on the way home.

3. Less stressful. This one is subjective, depending on where you need to commute from and to. In other words, I could prefer a car commute over a transit commute, but all things being equal (15 min car commute vs. 25 transit commute), I'd take transit every time. If it came down to an hour transit commute, I would be less happy with it...but same thing with a car.

One thing to note here is that I find driving stressful and not everyone does. This is my preference because I find most car commuting hectic, dangerous and stressful. Highway merging, cars ripping across lanes, etc.

The big benefit for transit being that I get to read, listen to music and just relax and I don't have to manage my way through traffic.

4. I like walking out my front door and spending time outside. For me, it's a sense of freedom and every day feels less similar. I like taking different streets or lines and seeing different people, shops, architecture, etc.
Some good points here. A lot of people say they don't ride transit because it takes too long.
Seems a poor understanding of the value of time. If I walk or bike, it MIGHT take a bit longer but I am multitasking (commute, exercise, stress reduction and commute) if I ride transit, I can read or work or nap while commuting. But if I drive a SOV, all I get done is the commute. I value my time too much for that.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
Some good points here. A lot of people say they don't ride transit because it takes too long.
Seems a poor understanding of the value of time. If I walk or bike, it MIGHT take a bit longer but I am multitasking (commute, exercise, stress reduction and commute) if I ride transit, I can read or work or nap while commuting. But if I drive a SOV, all I get done is the commute. I value my time too much for that.
If you have the luxury of not having to be somewhere, then that's fine. But if you don't, then transit may not be what you're looking for.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:54 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,349,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I have always used transit because I wanted to, though I have lived in cities that lacked transit forcing me to have to drive everywhere. But clearly people do ride transit.
No one suggested that people did not ride transit.

However, as much as you claim to not be "anti-car" it is clear that indeed you are.
Terminology such as "car dependent" is tossed around like a handicap, yet you seem okay to be "transit dependent" and to promote "transit dependency" which is what the article suggests using the government to impose on the populace.

If there is a comparison between "car dependent" and "transit dependent" then "transit dependent" certainly seems far worse - particularly since your article promotes using government to force transit dependency on a population.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:00 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,349,928 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I haven't read the article, but I'm assuming you're referring to what you quoted in your first post in this thread?

I'm suggesting that the automobile "relies upon government mandates and deliberate discrimination against other modes of transportation in order to succeed." And, if all modes of transportation were treated equally, more people would choose to use transit.
Read the article.
The automobile does not rely upon deliberate discrimination against other modes of transportation to succeed. Folks long ago realized the independence, efficiency, and adaptability of the automobile to a wide range of driving conditions, starting time, start point, route, end point, carrying capacity, etc. as compared to other transit and non-transit modes. The article submitted in support of transit actually suggests that transit can't "succeed" until there are governmental attempts to actively prevent or discourage other forms of transportation. The target of the article was cars.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:03 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,194,181 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If you have the luxury of not having to be somewhere, then that's fine. But if you don't, then transit may not be what you're looking for.
Has nothing to do with having the luxury of not having to be somewhere. I just value my time too much to spend it driving when I have options that allow me to multitask. I'm just surprised so many people use time as an excuse to drive a SOV. Clearly they don't understand the value of time. And I understand that transit, bike or walk do not work for many people/situations.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:03 PM
 
3,946 posts, read 4,040,668 times
Reputation: 4413
Quote:
If there is a comparison between "car dependent" and "transit dependent" then "transit dependent" certainly seems far worse
Except that rental cars exist, other mode forms exist (cabs, walking, bikes), and cars cost an individual a lot more than transit does. So I don't agree that 'transit dependent' seems worse except in some extreme edge cases.
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